VAIL SUCKS

[deadheadskier]

Assuming it stays the same I'll be moving on for sure this time. I've got alot of midweek time so it's a compelling list of.mountains and hard to pass up.
If I was skiing mostly weekends then not a chance in hell I would buy anything epic

If I had your schedule, I might have given them one more year. Having Crotched and Sunapee as easy day trips was nice. Ikon and Boyne don't have something similar in NH. Though Cannon plus Ikon might be a good pairing to ski Loon midweek.

 

[Smellytele]

If I had your schedule, I might have given them one more year. Having Crotched and Sunapee as easy day trips was nice. Ikon and Boyne don't have something similar in NH. Though Cannon plus Ikon might be a good pairing to ski Loon midweek.

I would rather drive the 10-15 minutes more to cannon than ski loon if I had both passes.

 

[deadheadskier]

I would rather drive the 10-15 minutes more to cannon than ski loon if I had both passes.

Most of the time yes, but following bad weather Loon is going to be a bit quicker to recover. It's not a bad mountain to ski groomers when it is uncrowded. I can also see scenarios in the spring when the bumps will soften earlier in the day than Cannon

 

[abc]

On the TGR Tahoe forum the posters are saying that Vail doesn’t give a damn about Kirkwood either. The epic corporate ski model is starting to really show its shortcomings.

Not as big of a deal at a place with 500" annual natural snowfall. Here in the East, austerity measures have a much larger impact on operations. Their failures compared to the local competition in NH are glaring again this year.

You're assuming the complain has anything to do with snowmaking, which isn't the issue!

Friend who ski Kirkwood complained it has cut its season length substantially in the spring. Given the "other" Vail property has lower elevation, the shortening of Kirkwood is in effect cutting the season for all Epic pass holder in Tahoe area.

The competition with other local mountains in Tahoe is equally glaring. I quite often go out to Tahoe in spring time. But that's to ski Squaw-Alpine (or Mt Rose). Granted, I'm not the demographic Vail are interested in anyway...

 

[Harvey]

Yet I know plenty of people who said Wildcat and Vail sucked last year, yet they still bought and Epic pass this year, expecting something different... you can’t fix stupid

You can't buy an epic pass and complain about Vail. IMHO.

Ok maybe one year. But not two in a row. When you buy that pass you are saying "keep it up Rob, great job!"

 

[abc]

You can't buy an epic pass and complain about Vail. IMHO.

Ok maybe one year. But not two in a row. When you buy that pass you are saying "keep it up Rob, great job!"

Some people have no choice. They have property in a mountain Vail bought.

 

[snoseek]

Watch me. I paid good money for the right to complain!

You can't buy an epic pass and complain about Vail. IMHO.

Ok maybe one year. But not two in a row. When you buy that pass you are saying "keep it up Rob, great job!"

 

[deadheadskier]

You're assuming the complain has anything to do with snowmaking, which isn't the issue!

Friend who ski Kirkwood complained it has cut its season length substantially in the spring. Given the "other" Vail property has lower elevation, the shortening of Kirkwood is in effect cutting the season for all Epic pass holder in Tahoe area.

The competition with other local mountains in Tahoe is equally glaring. I quite often go out to Tahoe in spring time. But that's to ski Squaw-Alpine (or Mt Rose). Granted, I'm not the demographic Vail are interested in anyway...

I know it's hard for you to grasp this abc, but it's not always about you. I wasn't replying to your message.

I know others who are / were Kirkwood skiers as well.

All I'm saying is that in the West, Vails operational shortcomings can often get bailed out by mother nature. Here in the East, they won't get so lucky and it appears they do not grasp just how important snowmaking efforts are to the local clientele and also frequently communicating where / when snow is being made.

Carry on

 

[raisingarizona]

I know it's hard for you to grasp this abc, but it's not always about you. I wasn't replying to your message.

I know others who are / were Kirkwood skiers as well.

All I'm saying is that in the West, Vails operational shortcomings can often get bailed out by mother nature. Here in the East, they won't get so lucky and it appears they do not grasp just how important snowmaking efforts are to the local clientele and also frequently communicating where / when snow is being made.

Carry on

Maybe so a lot of the time but right now Kirkwood isn’t going to open without snowmaking. It’s becoming more of a thing with a changing climate.

I imagine Vail gets the east coast ski area business but are focused on areas that make them the real money. They know the numbers.

 

[abc]

I know it's hard for you to grasp this abc, but it's not always about you. I wasn't replying to your message.

It seems you're the one who's unable to grasp!

You have completely missed the issue raised by another poster. But I guess that's entirely impossible for you to grasp too.

With moderators like this, no wonder this forum has the vibe it does.

 

[drjeff]

Maybe so a lot of the time but right now Kirkwood isn’t going to open without snowmaking. It’s becoming more of a thing with a changing climate.

I imagine Vail gets the east coast ski area business but are focused on areas that make them the real money. They know the numbers.

At some point I wonder if Vail's data driven approach, that often looks at the much more immediate short term data and how it plays into short term revenue and operational and investment decision making, will end up potentially negatively affecting their revenue and product sales say 5yr or more from now because of decisions made today?

Especially now that many of their properties, and properties that attract plenty of customers as well as their surrounding areas providing potential employees, are now in areas and of a different type of primary clientele (day trippers and even in some cases night trippers vs. destination resorts with extended stays)?

While ultimately its about skiing and riding in both type of resorts, there are certainly distinct differences in what the expectations of the primary clientele are, and the long term affects that that may have could end up being more significant than short term data analysis of the past season or two

 

[abc]

data driven approach

There're lies, damn lies, then there're statistics!

"Data" can be looked at in different ways. Ultimately, it's up to Vail management to choose whether they want to focus on short, intermediate or long term.

 

[deadheadskier]

It seems you're the one who's unable to grasp!

You have completely missed the issue raised by another poster. But I guess that's entirely impossible for you to grasp too.

With moderators like this, no wonder this forum has the vibe it does.

I wasn't asking for a conversation with you abc

I never am ......

 

[raisingarizona]

At some point I wonder if Vail's data driven approach, that often looks at the much more immediate short term data and how it plays into short term revenue and operational and investment decision making, will end up potentially negatively affecting their revenue and product sales say 5yr or more from now because of decisions made today?

Especially now that many of their properties, and properties that attract plenty of customers as well as their surrounding areas providing potential employees, are now in areas and of a different type of primary clientele (day trippers and even in some cases night trippers vs. destination resorts with extended stays)?

While ultimately its about skiing and riding in both type of resorts, there are certainly distinct differences in what the expectations of the primary clientele are, and the long term affects that that may have could end up being more significant than short term data analysis of the past season or two

Data is can be a good start but numbers often don’t tell the whole story.

It would be fun to be a fly on the wall during their marketing meetings

 

[cdskier]

Watch me. I paid good money for the right to complain!

They discounted the price 20%...so you need to complain 20% less!

 

[abc]

I wasn't asking for a conversation with you abc

Huh?

This is a public forum. We were not "having a private conversation"!

Besides, if you're not "having a conversation", then the thing to do is NOT to writing more post on the subject... Or is that too difficult to grasp?

 

[2Planker]

Get over it & Move on.
You're both ruining a good thread

 

[raisingarizona]

Get over it & Move on.
You're both ruining a good thread

Yup. They should get a room at motel 6 and have some of that hot and steamy man on man hate love.

 

[raisingarizona]

At some point I wonder if Vail's data driven approach, that often looks at the much more immediate short term data and how it plays into short term revenue and operational and investment decision making, will end up potentially negatively affecting their revenue and product sales say 5yr or more from now because of decisions made today?

Especially now that many of their properties, and properties that attract plenty of customers as well as their surrounding areas providing potential employees, are now in areas and of a different type of primary clientele (day trippers and even in some cases night trippers vs. destination resorts with extended stays)?

While ultimately its about skiing and riding in both type of resorts, there are certainly distinct differences in what the expectations of the primary clientele are, and the long term affects that that may have could end up being more significant than short term data analysis of the past season or two

Are you saying short sightedness driven by greed might eventually bight them in the ass? Ha! I think that’s a strong possibility.

 

[drjeff]

Are you saying short sightedness driven by greed might eventually bight them in the ass? Ha! I think that’s a strong possibility.

Not so sure if it's all about greed, or possibly some greed with a healthy side of trying to "force" folks into the Vail big resort model that has generally worked out West at destination resorts, but may not be nearly as applicable in the day to day operations of generally smaller Eastern and Midwestern resorts that rely for the vast majority of their customers as day (or night) and weekend at most visits, where the geographic driving distance of so many of their properties and the large population base within that driving distance, makes things like more transparent snow reporting more pertinent than for the Western resorts where so many booked their travel weeks or months in advance and will go regardless of the weather in the immediate few days prior.

I will be curious over the next year or so to see if the new CEO makes any pivots in operations positions compares to what Rob Katz did?