jimmywilson69
Well-known member
I give Vail credit for sending staff but the reality is it's nearly too late...
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VAIL SUCKS
- Thread starter thebigo
- Start date
drjeff
Well-known member
Honestly, I try and do this most anytime I see a snowmaker on the hill. They create a product we all love so we can do the sport we all love, and often they get little to no acknowledgement from the public for doing so. If you see them out on the hill, just a quick stop, a thumbs up and a thank you will always get a positive reaction from them in my experiencesRumors were in fact very true! This morning's snow report from Attitash:
Snow & Weather Report | Attitash Mountain Resort
www.attitash.com
On this lovely Tuesday, January 25th, 2022, four lifts will operate from 09:00 AM – 4:00 PM, Summit Triple, Learning Center, Snowbelt, and the Flying Bear.
We received a couple of inches overnight. Today, expect the weather to be much warmer than it has been, with temps getting up to 29 degrees in the base areas by 3 PM and snow showers with less than an inch of accumulation.
Bear Peak will have Avenger and Upper Kachina open with natural snow and no grooming. Attitash Peak will have Carrigan, Turkey Chute, Middle Highway, and White Horse open with natural snow and no grooming. If you choose to enjoy these trails, plan on expert snow sliding with early seasons conditions.
We have no race training anywhere today, and we’ve groomed all trails with people-made snow.
Snowmaking is working on Lower Saco/Ammo, Grandstand/Lower Moat, and moving off Trillium/Moonbeam to Wandering Skis. Thanks to our sister resorts, Heavenly, Vail, Crested Butte, and Northstar, we can run all three systems, sending snowmakers to support our team. If you see jackets from other resorts today, give them a high-five!
We should have a new mantra. See a snowmaker? Bring em' a beer and say THANK YOU!
drjeff
Well-known member
Gotta get Pres Week in good shape, and then soon there after the likely announcment of the 22-23 Epic pass prices in early/mid March. If the masses start seeing some good snowmaking efforts quantity wise, that may indeed leave them with the desire to re-up their Epic passes for next season and forget a bit about how the season started
Probably true for many
But as it's said, fool me once.....
I need to see Vail return their NH properties to a Peak level of operational competence at minimum.
What that means is by Christmas week
Wildcat: the three primary snowmaking routes off the summit, the beginner area and Wild Kitten all ready to go.
Attitash: multiple routes off both peaks and the two connected. Both the Yankee and Summit chair running everyday of the season that there is terrain available off them. The Abanaki quad running all weekends and holidays.
Crotched: 75% of terrain available by Christmas week, Valley chair running all weekends and holidays
Sunapee: multiple routes off Summit, Sun Bowl and North Peak chairs, Beginner area also ready to go.
Given the money Vail makes the above should be easier for them to achieve than what Peak regularly could. If they don't, my opinion remains they're more interested in maintaining share value than delivering a great product to the customers and I will continue to spend elsewhere.
abc
Well-known member
I only know of one, out at Colorado (not a Vail mountain). He's a skier in heart. Snow making allows him to get paid when there's no natural snow, ski when the natural snow comes. Clearly, one snowmaker doesn't represent all snowmakers.
But, if a snowmaker really loves making snow, he would be short changed doing it out west. It would be more interesting to live in the east and make snow for a good long part of the winter. However, a skier and a snowmaker will have more skiing time out west, at the expense of shorter working season. So when someone chose to be a snowmaker out west, he may not be that interested to spend a chunk of his skier time not skiing, or skiing packed down man made snow when he could have been skiing powder!
Obviously, there're both kinds out there. Some will be enticed to move around throughout the season. However, how many snowmakers Vail need in the east? And how many of them in their western mountains are willing to be "rotated" east each and every year?
I don't know what to tell you abc other than there are snowmakers from CB, Vail, Northstar and Heavenly all working in NH this week. Whether that becomes a regular thing each winter we don't know yet.
And the notion that they'd choose to live here full time each winter just to make snow for a handful of additional weeks is kind of silly. Most of these guys and girls are laborers in the trades in the warmer months; carpenters, landscapers etc. That's when they make most of their annual income. They choose snowmaking in the winter as it's fun and their primary income source isn't available. Not a lot of people want to move seasonally. So, they pick what works best for them on a year round basis.
I don't think you understand the demographic well.
And the notion that they'd choose to live here full time each winter just to make snow for a handful of additional weeks is kind of silly. Most of these guys and girls are laborers in the trades in the warmer months; carpenters, landscapers etc. That's when they make most of their annual income. They choose snowmaking in the winter as it's fun and their primary income source isn't available. Not a lot of people want to move seasonally. So, they pick what works best for them on a year round basis.
I don't think you understand the demographic well.
Well....there are a few snowmakers I've seen out here who are from South America/Australia/New Zealand and do it year round by working in the northern hemisphere during our winter and in the southern hemisphere during our summer. So that could be some of this crew (I believe the ones I have seen worked for Deer Valley or one of the resort chains). But you are right that a good portion of them move trades in the warmer months.
I haven't had a chance to listen, but this could be somewhat interesting. Looks like the Storm Skiing Podcast interviewed Katz himself yesterday.
www.stormskiing.com
Podcast #71: Vail Resorts Executive Chairperson of the Board Rob Katz
“The people who ski all of our resorts … need to feel like they are getting a good experience, and if they don’t, then our company is not successful.”
www.stormskiing.com
I get what you are saying, but blowing two out of three crucial times for eastern skiing is usually a financial disaster for a NE ski area. People do have short memories, but I don't think that they will be that short. I would imagine a fair number will leave. How many is yet to be seen as AZ is a narrow portion of the market and obviously not Vail's target customer.
drjeff
Well-known member
It would be nice if this season showed them that if say historically they need 50,000 employees (just randomly throwing that number out there as I have no clue what the actual number is) to operate all of their properties in a way that their guests expect, that they can't do it with say 35,000 employees, and regardless of what it takes, that they do need to make some changes into their employment and staffing ways, even if short term it increases their overhead, since longterm no action will more than likely have a far worse affect on their balance sheet. And then make the changes needed.
They do have a plethora of employees who are very passionate about the mountains that they work at, , and giving them the proper support they need, is going to more than likely have a positive ripple effect for their customer base. Hopefully the folks in the board room in Broomfield will get that while snow and lifts are the coomon thread among all of their resorts, the operational style need to succesfully run an Eastern and Western resort do indeed have some important differences.
Heck, even seeing some of the CO based corporate folks in the East occasionally, along with say a resort GM out helping scan passes to see how their boardroom decsions made 2k miles away, might be the type of thing that *could* bring some more tangible positive changes to so many ski areas that we in the East grew up with and love.
drjeff
Well-known member
I haven't had a chance to listen, but this could be somewhat interesting. Looks like the Storm Skiing Podcast interviewed Katz himself yesterday.
Podcast #71: Vail Resorts Executive Chairperson of the Board Rob Katz
“The people who ski all of our resorts … need to feel like they are getting a good experience, and if they don’t, then our company is not successful.”
Well I now know what I will be listening to this afternoon as I spend about 2:30 in the car drivng over and back to a highschool ski race at Mount Southington later today!
eatskisleep
Well-known member
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Pretty cool. Too little too late? Depends on how the weather plays out for the rest of the season. Good gesture though.Rumors were in fact very true! This morning's snow report from Attitash:
Snow & Weather Report | Attitash Mountain Resort
On this lovely Tuesday, January 25th, 2022, four lifts will operate from 09:00 AM – 4:00 PM, Summit Triple, Learning Center, Snowbelt, and the Flying Bear.
We received a couple of inches overnight. Today, expect the weather to be much warmer than it has been, with temps getting up to 29 degrees in the base areas by 3 PM and snow showers with less than an inch of accumulation.
Bear Peak will have Avenger and Upper Kachina open with natural snow and no grooming. Attitash Peak will have Carrigan, Turkey Chute, Middle Highway, and White Horse open with natural snow and no grooming. If you choose to enjoy these trails, plan on expert snow sliding with early seasons conditions.
We have no race training anywhere today, and we’ve groomed all trails with people-made snow.
Snowmaking is working on Lower Saco/Ammo, Grandstand/Lower Moat, and moving off Trillium/Moonbeam to Wandering Skis. Thanks to our sister resorts, Heavenly, Vail, Crested Butte, and Northstar, we can run all three systems, sending snowmakers to support our team. If you see jackets from other resorts today, give them a high-five!
We should have a new mantra. See a snowmaker? Bring em' a beer and say THANK YOU!
Yeah I think we all hope that but I imagine that corporate will look at this and say, "our problem was all COVID" and next year try to see what they can get away with.
drjeff
Well-known member
I get the impression that if you give the crews a decent 2 weeks or so of temps, that they can make a significant impact on the trail count. Now if they could just keep the triple at Attitash running to access some of the snow the crews will likely make, that would really be a miracle!
drjeff
Well-known member
I think (or at minimum certainly hope) that you're starting to see more and more across a greater portion of society that folks are realizing that the phrase "our problem was all COVID" is just an excuse, and an excuse that less and less people are believing still, for passing off changes that various entities didn't/don't want to make since it would entail to some degree owning that some recent actions taken in the last 2 years likely weren't either needed at all or at minimum for as long as they may have been left in place.
abc
Well-known member
The past 2 years had caused some significant changes in the society.
Sadly, many people are still thinking we will "go back to normal", the way thing were 2 years ago. Some of those people are also decision makers. So those are the business that will use the "our problem was all COVID" and do nothing differently going forward. Granted, there're also customers who share that "this is just Covid" and still expect everything will go back to what it was pre-2020. They will be the ones who stuck it out with the underperformer.
For the rest who understand things will be different, it's not so much whether they will or will not accept those excuses. It has more to do whether there're other options they could go to instead of being stuck with the underperforming entity they've been with.
When it comes to skiing specifically, those of us not having property attached to a specific mountain with no other nearby competition will simply not go back to Vail. Vail may improve, or not, or it may not happen till several years down the road. If so, I'll come back in a few years. But I don't need to insist on being the victim of their on-going fiasco.
Edd
Well-known member
“The people who ski all of our resorts … need to feel like they are getting a good experience, and if they don’t, then our company is not successful.”I haven't had a chance to listen, but this could be somewhat interesting. Looks like the Storm Skiing Podcast interviewed Katz himself yesterday.
Podcast #71: Vail Resorts Executive Chairperson of the Board Rob Katz
“The people who ski all of our resorts … need to feel like they are getting a good experience, and if they don’t, then our company is not successful.”
Quote from Katz above. Per that statement they’ve fully shit the bed at Wildcat on every level.
pinion
Active member
Another wrinkle that may be specific to Wildcat in Vail's New England portfolio: the folks coming from Okemo/Snow/Stowe have an expectation of recreational skiing that Wildcat could not support without blowing up it's current "grit" culture and heritage. Going back to the "square peg, round hole" analogy, how does Wildcat fit into the Vail idea of a "resort". At least the other NH mountains when fully operational have more of a full service feel to them.
Managing expectations across the different properties in Vail's portfolio is important I think.
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And Katz's response last year was to resign. What does that tell you about how he thought things were going?
It's funny, my greatest fear when Vail took over Wildcat was they'd neuter the place with snowmaking on places I don't want to see it like Upper Wildcat, Cougar etc and groom the hell out of the place. I thought Peak had the right mix of snowmaking and grooming vs natural terrain at Cat.
