VAIL SUCKS

[Edd]

I would be happy if people switch from Stowe to SB. Less people works for me. IMO Stowe is a better mountain then SB on many levels. @ Stowe you have vertical all the way down to the lift, Not the case @ SB The backcountry/ side country however you want to name it is better. When there is a rain event Stowe has the capacity to refresh the mountain in a more efficient manor then SB does. They make better snow, more of it and they groom better then SB does. Lift systems are quicker, and it’s nice to get to the top of the mountain on one lift. I would agree that SB has an advantage with pod lifts when it is windy and can spread people out a bit better then Stowe can. SB has always been more aggressive in opening trails then Stowe. SB has had plenty of issues this year. North Ridge chair not open even though it’s the main chair over at Ellen, Last weekend two chairs not working for most of the weekend @ Ellen. Not making enough snow this season due to broken pipe and water issues.
I am not a fan of Vail but some of these complaints in this thread are getting ridiculous. I hope Kingslug is right that a significant amount of people move to SB, for me I would rather be @ Stowe over an entire season then SB. So let the migration begin…….

I agree with your lift assessment between those mountains. This is just preference but I’m not a fan of the upper/lower pod setups vs T2B. That’s an issue I have with Cannon, which I know is blasphemy on AZ. I fully get why they’re set up that way but just not how I like to do my runs. Long runs with one lift trip is my preference.

 

[Kingslug20]

Im just glad i can go to either in the same amount of time now..

 

[tumbler]

I’m not sure how many will make an exodus from Stowe to SB especially if you own at Stowe. To leave on area to go to another 45+ minutes away would annoy me. There are also limited rental and ownership options in the Valley.

 

[baykon]

Ragged is hosting sunapee for a race today. Rode up with a sunapee race dad. Said the race parents at sunapee are "disgusted" and planning a "mass exodus" next year.

Sunapee is supposed to be the well run of the four.

can confirm. one of my cousins has two kids on the sunapee team; he's livid and thinking of going back to pat's. my uncle used to be involved with racing and ski school at sunapee as well and said everyone there despises vail. perhaps stating the obvious at this point.

 

[hovercraft]

I agree with your lift assessment between those mountains. This is just preference but I’m not a fan of the upper/lower pod setups vs T2B. That’s an issue I have with Cannon, which I know is blasphemy on AZ. I fully get why they’re set up that way but just not how I like to do my runs. Long runs with one lift trip is my preference.

On the same page as you. At times the pod has it’s advantage but I prefer the T2B runs as well. It’s worth the wind holds on occasion for the ride to the top.

 

[thetrailboss]

Ragged is hosting sunapee for a race today. Rode up with a sunapee race dad. Said the race parents at sunapee are "disgusted" and planning a "mass exodus" next year.

Sunapee is supposed to be the well run of the four.

can confirm. one of my cousins has two kids on the sunapee team; he's livid and thinking of going back to pat's. my uncle used to be involved with racing and ski school at sunapee as well and said everyone there despises vail. perhaps stating the obvious at this point.

Vail focuses only on Epic. That's it. The rentals, retail, food and bev, and some lodging are profit centers to make up for any losses created by Epic. Anything else is a cost for them and they want to cut it. This includes things like racing programs using the slopes regularly, special events, and terrain parks. Anyone who is familiar with Park City knows that racing and other events were a really big deal for the town. Heaven forbid if a family is into racing and getting their kids into skiing. I think it is very shortsighted. The future of the business are the kids. Goodwill is worth something to a business. But it is not Epic.

Within a season or two Vail stopped Park City's night skiing (very popular with the locals), cut the season back at least a week (eliminating the April school break ski time that, again, locals loved), and pretty much kicked out the youth racing programs. All were losing money. Vail is Epic when it comes to costcutting and I think it will hurt them. (They also pissed off locals by threatening suit against any businesses that used the words, "Park City" in its name. That effort was killed when the media covered it).

The only upside I can see is that the locals rallied and worked with the Olympic Park to build THEIR OWN race trails with two new lifts. At last check the buildout will be completed this summer with a high-speed quad and a whole mountain with maybe 7-8 runs and 1,000 vertical. The Olympic Park is a gem and has been very eager to offer more programs and generate interest (and much needed revenue). That's a win. And Utah is gaining another ski area.

 

[thetrailboss]

I would be happy if people switch from Stowe to SB. Less people works for me. IMO Stowe is a better mountain then SB on many levels. @ Stowe you have vertical all the way down to the lift, Not the case @ SB The backcountry/ side country however you want to name it is better. When there is a rain event Stowe has the capacity to refresh the mountain in a more efficient manor then SB does. They make better snow, more of it and they groom better then SB does. Lift systems are quicker, and it’s nice to get to the top of the mountain on one lift. I would agree that SB has an advantage with pod lifts when it is windy and can spread people out a bit better then Stowe can. SB has always been more aggressive in opening trails then Stowe. SB has had plenty of issues this year. North Ridge chair not open even though it’s the main chair over at Ellen, Last weekend two chairs not working for most of the weekend @ Ellen. Not making enough snow this season due to broken pipe and water issues.
I am not a fan of Vail but some of these complaints in this thread are getting ridiculous. I hope Kingslug is right that a significant amount of people move to SB, for me I would rather be @ Stowe over an entire season then SB. So let the migration begin…….

So what complaints do you disagree with? Generally speaking of course.

 

[eatskisleep]

News

www.outtherecolorado.com

 

[eatskisleep]

Less trails = less maintenance = more stock price!!

Vail Mountain removes double-black diamond run ‘The Narrows’ from ski area

VAIL — The run called The Narrows has been removed from the in-bounds terrain available to skiers and snowboarders on Vail Mountain, a spokesperson with the resort has confirmed.

www.vaildaily.com

 

[pinion]

Less trails = less maintenance = more stock price!!

Vail Mountain removes double-black diamond run ‘The Narrows’ from ski area

VAIL — The run called The Narrows has been removed from the in-bounds terrain available to skiers and snowboarders on Vail Mountain, a spokesperson with the resort has confirmed.

www.vaildaily.com

Vail still sucks, but I'm actually in favor of this sort of thing. Mount Washington Valley ski areas are littered with secret spots and some of them were at one time on "the map". Now it's like an outdoor version of In-N-Out's Secret Menu, you just have to know who to ask to help find it.

Vail Resort pulls in a TON of different types of skiers throughout the season and if removing a trail with historically poor coverage helps keep armies of "The Guy Who Just Bought a Boat" from following their "brahs" into the woods and exiting straight to Vail Health then it's probably a good thing.

 

[Los]

Stowe..over a foot this week..over 100 inches...80% open...no front 4 top runs open.
Sugarbush...less snow..100% open
Vail...you suck.....bet a lot of Stowe people switch to SB next season...

God I hope not. Sugarbush is already beyond max capacity.

 

[hovercraft]

The non stop complaining with out giving any consideration to the environment of Covid, labor shortage or extreme lack of snow. By no means am I a fan of Vail but they do somethings right. I can only speak of Stowe as that is my home mountain. People complaining that they weren’t making enough snow, (not my experience), not enough trails open, (not my experience), not running lifts when they should be, (not my experience) a recent post dealing with another mountain ” Less trails=less maintance=more stock price”. That might have been done for a good reason. One member on the forum seems to think so. I have no idea if it was a good decision or not but that is an example of fly specking everything they do and finding something wrong with it. Again I am not a fan of Vail I would rather have AIG still owe Stowe but to say that Vail hasn’t done anything right at Stowe isn’t accurate. I am sure the majority of complaints on this thread are legitimate and it feels like it’s a big pile on at times.

 

[pinion]

I am sure the majority of complaints on this thread are legitimate and it feels like it’s a big pile on at times.

The power of the internet! Definitely a pile-on. At times deserved IMO. Stowe being MTN's "crown jewel" of the East likely helps their operational budget/etc and might be partly why you're seeing so many positives compared to those of us skiing the NH properties.

I appreciate this thread because many folks on here - between the layers of pile-on - are willing to go deep into specific snowmaking/grooming/patrol issues. And I personally would have missed most of the journalism efforts on this issue if they weren't linked here. It's a lot of shit to pick through, but nuggets abound in the previous 275 pages

 

[Kingslug20]

Vail wants to be The Premier Ski Experience...
Does anyone here see that?
High end companies pay their people more so they put out a better product...
Vail..does not put out a high end product.
Tens of thousands of people across the country...can be wrong.

 

[Smellytele]

Also if they say an area is closed and it is roped if you ski it vail being vail will pull your pass if caught.

 

[raisingarizona]

I would be happy if people switch from Stowe to SB. Less people works for me. IMO Stowe is a better mountain then SB on many levels. @ Stowe you have vertical all the way down to the lift, Not the case @ SB The backcountry/ side country however you want to name it is better. When there is a rain event Stowe has the capacity to refresh the mountain in a more efficient manor then SB does. They make better snow, more of it and they groom better then SB does. Lift systems are quicker, and it’s nice to get to the top of the mountain on one lift. I would agree that SB has an advantage with pod lifts when it is windy and can spread people out a bit better then Stowe can. SB has always been more aggressive in opening trails then Stowe. SB has had plenty of issues this year. North Ridge chair not open even though it’s the main chair over at Ellen, Last weekend two chairs not working for most of the weekend @ Ellen. Not making enough snow this season due to broken pipe and water issues.
I am not a fan of Vail but some of these complaints in this thread are getting ridiculous. I hope Kingslug is right that a significant amount of people move to SB, for me I would rather be @ Stowe over an entire season then SB. So let the migration begin…….

There really isn’t a more aesthetic and perfect ski mountain than Stowe out east. It’s hard to beat Stowes 2k vert high speed lift and long, uninterrupted sinuous fall line ski trails that perfectly hug the contours. That being said, ever since National and Lift Line were regularly groomed back in the late 80’s/early 90’s the front four don’t really deserve their old reputation.

 

[eatskisleep]

The non stop complaining with out giving any consideration to the environment of Covid, labor shortage or extreme lack of snow. By no means am I a fan of Vail but they do somethings right. I can only speak of Stowe as that is my home mountain. People complaining that they weren’t making enough snow, (not my experience), not enough trails open, (not my experience), not running lifts when they should be, (not my experience) a recent post dealing with another mountain ” Less trails=less maintance=more stock price”. That might have been done for a good reason. One member on the forum seems to think so. I have no idea if it was a good decision or not but that is an example of fly specking everything they do and finding something wrong with it. Again I am not a fan of Vail I would rather have AIG still owe Stowe but to say that Vail hasn’t done anything right at Stowe isn’t accurate. I am sure the majority of complaints on this thread are legitimate and it feels like it’s a big pile on at times.

The complaints are very legitimate especially when you look at ski areas like Wildcat where they are failing at. Not making enough snow, not enough trails open, not enough staff for lifts or running lifts, yet they have plenty of staff to check your “vaccine passports”. Pandemic started in 2020, every other business seems to figure it out, Vail should too.

And I’m sorry that my joke about the stock price went over your head, this has simply become the “post anything about Vail” thread IMO. The stock price is a bit of a rubbing joke amongst some of us here like DHS. “Can’t blow snow tonight, stock price dropped $1”… in relation to my post above about Vail taking trails off the map: I do think it could open up a valid discussion though about on versus off the map trails, and if ski patrol should patrol them or have any say if you ski them or not. If you are gonna take a trail off the map, then when it is skiable & safe by some (nothing is ever 100% safe) you clip their ticket, that is not “right” IMO.

 

[Kingslug20]

They have less patrollers...only thing i can think of why they are closing areas.
Less groomers..
Less snow makers.
Seems like no one wants to work for them..i wouldnt.
I might try out for a part time teaching job...with SB next season..not..vail.
They have to get their act together..and they have the money to do it.
I used to work for one of the most high end real estate management companies in the world..we spent a fortune on our employees with training..tools..etc.
My building won building of the year..we made it perfect..
I quit my last job because it was the opposite..i lost interest and did not want my name on a building that had a D rating..
I give Vail a D...we shall see

 

[abc]

By no means am I a fan of Vail but they do somethings right. I can only speak of Stowe as that is my home mountain.

That's the disconnect.

Vail put efforts into SOME of the mountains. So if yours is one of them, you should be happy.

But those efforts are at the expense of other mountains which didn't even open full week! Or only had 1 or 2 trails from top to bottom through MLK weekend!

It's a world of haves and have nots! Sure, it's hard for the haves to understand the complains of the have nots.

The non stop complaining with out giving any consideration to the environment of Covid, labor shortage or extreme lack of snow.

You're neglecting the fact that other mountains in the same vicinity were doing considerably better than Vail owned properties. When there's no comparison, anything can be "acceptable" given the environmental issue. But when one business is doing far better than another, anyone have an once of intelligent can tell the excuses wears thin.

I am sure the majority of complaints on this thread are legitimate and it feels like it’s a big pile on at times.

If the complaints are legitimate, that's what matters.

As for the pile on, it only means there're many affected.

Last but not least, Alpinezone isn't representative of the average skiing demographic. So no need to get upset about the piling on. That said, I found it interesting the various links to other media sources.

 

[2Planker]

They have less patrollers...only thing i can think of why they are closing areas.
Less groomers..
Less snow makers.
Seems like no one wants to work for them..i wouldnt.
I might try out for a part time teaching job...with SB next season..not..vail.
They have to get their act together..and they have the money to do it.
I used to work for one of the most high end real estate management companies in the world..we spent a fortune on our employees with training..tools..etc.
My building won building of the year..we made it perfect..
I quit my last job because it was the opposite..i lost interest and did not want my name on a building that had a D rating..
I give Vail a D...we shall see

Correct ! - Both AT & WC are down considerably from the normal patrol #'s of a couple years ago...
For those that left (some after 20-30 years) it was never about the $$$