VAIL SUCKS

[danimals]

This makes it seem like it was always a shoestring operation.

 

[eatskisleep]

 

[jaytrem]

This makes it seem like it was always a shoestring operation.

Curious, any of those guys still there?

 

[ScottySkis]

Better pay iffered from Aspen

Aspen Skiing Co. Announces Surprise $3/hr Raise For All Employees

Aspen Skiing Co. announced a $3/hr raise for all hourly and salary staff beginning Sunday, February 13th. The raise represents a $12 million dollar

unofficialnetworks.com

I spelled wrong on purpose because that How I been known forever
Fyi now we can edit subject thread title and what in the thread I been editing subwxts like platty thread..i believe it changed when Nick I update the ski forum last year

 

[RichT]

now today, sunday, north side left down. Scheeching,

Today, Monday they had West and North closed because they closed the Belt for snowmaking! Big corporation doesn't want anybody skiing trails when make snow? Afraid of lawsuits if someone gets hurt?

 

[catskillman]

Today, Monday they had West and North closed because they closed the Belt for snowmaking! Big corporation doesn't want anybody skiing trails when make snow? Afraid of lawsuits if someone gets hurt?

they had no choice - the belt was a total sheet of ice and very dangerous ! has been for a while especially below the lift. they might get it sooner or later, that this is the east.... It was so cold today, there were very few people to complain I guess. But there was a PSIA Level 3 exam today. Boy did those people luck out. There was no DD terrain open except racers to ski, which makes it tough to assess skill levels....I bet everyone passed...

AND - they did not even open the 6 pack until 9:30 today........

 

[IceEidolon]

Isn't Belt HKDs now, they took down the old Highlands? Did they go full auto Klik, manual hydrant, little line flood segments? I haven't been there in a good while. As I recall the top section used to be line flood HKDs, which are pretty easy to run as long as you have two guys and two radios.

 

[kendo]

Wall Street analysts recommending Vail straighten out its operating issues before acquiring more resorts. . .

Wall Street analysts expect Vail Resorts to raise wages

A common theme has been pointed out among several analysts covering Vail Resorts stock: The company’s workers are likely to be paid more next season.

www.vaildaily.com

 

[doublediamond]

Repeat after me.

Lower. Pass. Prices. Does. Not. Make. Skiing. “Inclusive.”

It’s not inclusive as it is not growing the sport.

You wake up on a winter morning and you or your family decides to learn to ski. What do you do? You go to the mountain, get rentals, and a lesson. You get a$$ raped by Vail at that point. All day-of on-mountain prices are beyond astronomical. A newcomer to the sport doesn’t know to book ahead for cheaper tickets. They missed the pass sale window. They wouldn’t even buy one anyways not knowing if they like the sport. They don’t know about off-mountain equipment rentals. And they certainly don’t know how to ski or if they try without a lesson they might fail and get seriously hurt. All Vail has done is turn those newcomers away from the sport … possibly for good. Over 50% of first-time skiers don’t come back. And that’s before considering this recent nonsense by Vail.

All these lower pass prices do is entice the few-time-a-year holiday warriors to move over to a pass and maybe come a couple more times to break even or to get a couple ”free” days in, or to entice some people over from competitor mountains. Ergo massive crowding issues. All for a few more incoming bucks to bump up TODAY’s stock value with no regards to FUTURE success of the company.

 

[thetrailboss]

Repeat after me.

Lower. Pass. Prices. Does. Not. Make. Skiing. “Inclusive.”

It’s not inclusive as it is not growing the sport.

That is Alterra's marketing for IKON.

 

[trackbiker]

Repeat after me.

Lower. Pass. Prices. Does. Not. Make. Skiing. “Inclusive.”

It’s not inclusive as it is not growing the sport.

You wake up on a winter morning and you or your family decides to learn to ski. What do you do? You go to the mountain, get rentals, and a lesson. You get a$$ raped by Vail at that point. All day-of on-mountain prices are beyond astronomical. A newcomer to the sport doesn’t know to book ahead for cheaper tickets. They missed the pass sale window. They wouldn’t even buy one anyways not knowing if they like the sport. They don’t know about off-mountain equipment rentals. And they certainly don’t know how to ski or if they try without a lesson they might fail and get seriously hurt. All Vail has done is turn those newcomers away from the sport … possibly for good. Over 50% of first-time skiers don’t come back. And that’s before considering this recent nonsense by Vail.

All these lower pass prices do is entice the few-time-a-year holiday warriors to move over to a pass and maybe come a couple more times to break even or to get a couple ”free” days in, or to entice some people over from competitor mountains. Ergo massive crowding issues. All for a few more incoming bucks to bump up TODAY’s stock value with no regards to FUTURE success of the company.

I agree. I don't know why the annalists don't mention that Vail is killing off new comers to the sport and future business. The other way people get introduced is through school and other youth group trips which Vail has also put the kabosh on while baby boomers are aging out. Nobody mentions that. I guess it didn't show up in their algorithms.

 

[thetrailboss]

I agree. I don't know why the annalists don't mention that Vail is killing off new comers to the sport and future business. The other way people get introduced is through school and other youth group trips which Vail has also put the kabosh on while baby boomers are aging out. Nobody mentions that. I guess it didn't show up in their algorithms.

Because the interest is only on the short term. That is it.

 

[thetrailboss]

Vail's Handling of State-Owned Mount Sunapee Stirs Lots of Complaints - InDepthNH.org

Gov. Chris Sununu said his administration is working with Vail Corporation to produce a better customer experience at state-owned Mount Sunapee.

indepthnh.org

 

[RISkier]

I agree. I don't know why the annalists don't mention that Vail is killing off new comers to the sport and future business. The other way people get introduced is through school and other youth group trips which Vail has also put the kabosh on while baby boomers are aging out. Nobody mentions that. I guess it didn't show up in their algorithms.

Generalizing a bit here but the industry really isn't doing anything to attract new skiers. I started skiing just before my 50th birthday. I was heavily lobbied to give it a go. We found a 3-day package at Gunstock that included rentals, lessons, and lift tickets. If I recall correctly it was $109. At any rate, it wasn't too painful financially to take a flyer. First day was not that fun. You get rental boots that don't fit that well. Walking in the boots is a foreign experience. Going downstairs to the bathroom? I'm sure it's less daunting for kids who don't have years of preconceived ideas to fight through. I'd have happily never returned for a 2nd day. I heard some folks who work in the industry (a level III instructor) say that only about 15% of persons who take a beginner lesson ever return. But, I promised to give it a 3-day go. 2nd day was much better and we skied almost every weekend the rest of the year. I don't know what a 1 day beginner lesson package costs at a Vail resort these days. I think a 2-hour afternoon 1st day lesson at Stowe is $199 (less if you have an Epic Pass) and I don't think that includes rentals and I didn't see anything indicating it included lift tickets. It's a tough sell to get folks to give it a go, and the corporate ski industry doesn't seem interested in attracting new skiers.

 

[Edd]

Sometimes a person I know who is middle aged will say something like, "I've never tried skiing, maybe I'll give it a shot". I've got no good sales pitch for taking up skiing. There's nothing easy, convenient, or cheap about it, and it's incredibly time-consuming. So when people start talking like they'll try it I'm not very encouraging.

 

[thebigo]

We have neighbors down the road, two school aged kids who had never skied before this year. Parents skied as kids but gave it up for a number of years as many parents do, they bought epic passes this year due to the price. Was talking to them a few weeks back and the kids were all excited they skied a black diamond at crotched. They ski weekdays and have no idea that anything is wrong. Parents have booked a Colorado trip. Left the conversation thinking the epic pass is intended for these people. Despite the disaster that was my family's one season on epic, it is definitely a positive if it gets even one of those kids hooked on skiing.

 

[Kingslug20]

I started at 30. First skis were old hart billy kids...not good...once i got decent boots and skis, i spent a season at mountain creek falling on ice. But..once we started going to Belleayre it got better. Yes..its a schlepp and i imagine if you dont like cold it wont appeal.
But if you like the outdoors and speed and are a little daring...its a pretty cool hobby.
I always encourage people that want to try it.
Changed my life.

 

[abc]

There's nothing easy, convenient, or cheap about it, and it's incredibly time-consuming.

It's only time-consuming if you don't live near a ski hill. So I admire people who don't live in the snowbelt becoming a skier.

I learnt to ski when I was living in an area that has 6 months winter. So the snow is going to be there whether I like it or not. Might as well enjoy it. Different story if I had to drive 5 hrs to ski! I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have bothered.

For those who do live near ski hills though, it's just finding the money to do the skiing part. No travel expense involved. Thankfully, there're still such packages in many of the feeder hills. I managed it even as a college kid working part time on campus.

That said, of the people I went with for our beginner package, I am the only one who ended up skiing.

 

[jimmywilson69]

For those who do live near ski hills though, it's just finding the money to do the skiing part. No travel expense involved.

This is exactly what Vail is missing, especially for the "feeder hills" they acquired. There were many affordable options to enter into skiing in south central PA prior to Vail. You could get a night pass with lift, lesson, and rentals for $300 that was good from 1/1 until march when they closed. Now your first time is going to cost you probably $200 if you want a lift, lesson, and rentals. If you want to go multiple times you have to buy a $500+ epic Northeast pass and you are on your own for lessons and rentals each time. Sure the old pass was likely under priced, but its cold a loss leader...

normal income people don't learn to ski by deciding to go to Vail for the week and spend thousands of dollars. They go to these local areas that are/were reputable for their learn to ski programs and then as they get hooked on it, they "graduate" into a season pass product. They are completely missing the boat with this crowd and don't care because their metric of success is how many epic passes they've sold.

 

[deadheadskier]

I think the best thing Vail can do help grow the sport is do a better job of advertising Epic Day passes. Isn't Stowe only like $67 a day with an Epic Day Pass?

What is the cost for feeder hill Epic Day Passes? Would it move the needle if it were say $45?