VAIL SUCKS

[icecoast1]

It occurred to me today that Vail may have never intended to keep wildcat and attitash but there simply was not enough time between close of Peaks acquisition and the pandemic to unload them. This may explain why both GMs, and apparently a significant percentage of the staff, departed this year. Further why the GMs were replaced with younger (read cheaper) candidates. Their orders may have been, keep them open until we can unload them and don't activate the insurance on any passes.

The amount of snow that has been blown at Attitash, on trails yet to open this year, is staggering. I dont buy the foreign worker argument, I have not heard of any areas being impacted on the scale of wildcat and attitash.

There really isnt any logical reason other than a staffing issue for what's going on at attitash.


Many other vail properties are having issues this winter too, lack of staff probably playing a large role, this thread just seems to be largely focused on NH

 

[FBGM]

And the pile of shit in the porta potty was higher than the seat

I would say send that pic to the GM in an email. Zoom in

 

[Cobbold]

I

It occurred to me today that Vail may have never intended to keep wildcat and attitash but there simply was not enough time between close of Peaks acquisition and the pandemic to unload them. This may explain why both GMs, and apparently a significant percentage of the staff, departed this year. Further why the GMs were replaced with younger (read cheaper) candidates. Their orders may have been, keep them open until we can unload them and don't activate the insurance on any passes.

The amount of snow that has been blown at Attitash, on trails yet to open this year, is staggering. I dont buy the foreign worker argument, I have not heard of any areas being impacted on the scale of wildcat and attitash.

i have heard Katz speak numerous times(YouTube videos etc) about the image of vail and the importance of their guests and quality of the guest stay, no way would he allow a half ass operation till they sold the areas, I really believe they have long range plans for both which includes upgrades, if they were selling they would have shut both down before damaging their brand, they got flat footed and picked two guys who are in over their heads, sometimes the simple explanation is the correct one, but who really knows what is going on, but the epic pass in northern New Hampshire is taking a beating.

 

[Mainer]

The new gm at attitash was hired nov 1. I don’t think they started hiring until after that. I’m guessing experienced skilled seasonal employees would want a guarantee of employment around or before that time. As a business owner in the mount Washington valley, I know it’s hard to find employees. But when u start hiring after everyone else and pay less than everyone else, you know what u get. Scraps. It really all comes down to bad management. I don’t know if Greg Gavrilets (new attitash gm) is way over his head or he just got dealt a bad hand. But he will probably need a bodyguard soon if he doesn’t figure it out.

 

[deadheadskier]

Just skied attitash. Bunch of trails have snow blown on them, but nothing is open. Still just illusion, connector to attitash. 1 1/2 runs off triple. Talked to an employee who was just as frustrated as me, he said they don’t have enough people to drive the groomers. I have a 4 and a 6 year old, the learning triple at attitash is boring for my kids. Top of illusion is super icy and crowded. Morningstar would be fine but instead of running it right back to bear you have to skate back on the bottom
Cat track pulling little kids. The triple is the triple. My wife is pissed at me because I choose the passes. I think the new gm thinks he’s the man and is not listening to the people that have worked there forever. What a pathetic effort

If I were the GM of Attitash, I'd learn to drive a groomer myself and push out Cathedral to get the Yankee open

 

[tumbler]

Vail is too big. Katz probably doesn't even know where Attitash is...sounds like they need a better corporate structure with regional presidents to run the show. However, (putting on tin foil hat) I am a bit suspicious that the ski areas know something we do not about the season getting suspended or totally shut down again. Make it through the holidays but another surge is coming.

 

[deadheadskier]

that begs to ask, what the hell happened to all of the mountain ops staff? Were they let go? Does Vail not pay enough? I would think most grooming positions don't turn over in a winter, because its a highly skilled position. IDK...

Fairly reliable sources have told me the Attitash MTN ops manager left for Sunday River and the Wildcat MTN ops manager left for Sugarbush.

Less reliable sources have said that line level snowmakers and groomers get paid much better by the competition.

While Facebook isn't the perfect barometer, I've been following the White Mountain Superpass areas and none of them have nearly as pissed off customers

End of the day, I have little room to cut a billion dollar company slack on screwing up this badly.

 

[Cobbold]

Vail is too big. Katz probably doesn't even know where Attitash is...sounds like they need a better corporate structure with regional presidents to run the show. However, (putting on tin foil hat) I am a bit suspicious that the ski areas know something we do not about the season getting suspended or totally shut down again. Make it through the holidays but another surge is coming.

Vail is too big. Katz probably doesn't even know where Attitash is...sounds like they need a better corporate structure with regional presidents to run the show. However, (putting on tin foil hat) I am a bit suspicious that the ski areas know something we do not about the season getting suspended or totally shut down again. Make it through the holidays but another surge is coming.

The only place in New England that seems to be a problem, for vail, is wildcat and atitash, Sunapee is 40 percent open, crotched is 50 percent, read all kinds of articles that college kids took time off to work ski areas this winter, but apparently not at wildcat or atitash, looks like to me, vail picked two gms who weren’t ready for prime time, my guess these two are on borrowed time, I am sure Katz and his senior time have all kinds of metrics that they use to track gms, and atitash /wildcat gms are getting killed on them, the question is who does vail have in the bullpen, do they bring Blaise carrington out of retirement, rehire the old gm of Mt snow, some combination of the two? But this is a disaster for vails reputation of quality skiing experience.

 

[thetrailboss]

The only place in New England that seems to be a problem, for vail, is wildcat and atitash, Sunapee is 40 percent open, crotched is 50 percent, read all kinds of articles that college kids took time off to work ski areas this winter, but apparently not at wildcat or atitash, looks like to me, vail picked two gms who weren’t ready for prime time, my guess these two are on borrowed time, I am sure Katz and his senior time have all kinds of metrics that they use to track gms, and atitash /wildcat gms are getting killed on them, the question is who does vail have in the bullpen, do they bring Blaise carrington out of retirement, rehire the old gm of Mt snow, some combination of the two? But this is a disaster for vails reputation of quality skiing experience.

Just playing Devil's Advocate for a minute....considering that folks here have commented about long lines at Attitash it might seem that Vail may think that everything is fine since folks are skiing there. The conditions suck and operations suck, but there are people coming through the gates. And honestly Vail already got people's money from pass sales.

 

[Cobbold]

o

Just playing Devil's Advocate for a minute....considering that folks here have commented about long lines at Attitash it might seem that Vail may think that everything is fine since folks are skiing there. The conditions suck and operations suck, but there are people coming through the gates. And honestly Vail already got people's money from pass sales.

 

[Cobbold]

Who knows what the folks in Broomfield co, know or don’t know, but I can’t believe they are happy with this if they are aware of it, vail is big on metrics, hard to believe they are not aware of it. Most big retail stores have mystery shoppers, hard to believe vail wouldn’t have mystery skiers at all their areas, assuming their metrics don’t pick up this mess, the mystery skiers sure would.

 

[snoseek]

The only place in New England that seems to be a problem, for vail, is wildcat and atitash, Sunapee is 40 percent open, crotched is 50 percent, read all kinds of articles that college kids took time off to work ski areas this winter, but apparently not at wildcat or atitash, looks like to me, vail picked two gms who weren’t ready for prime time, my guess these two are on borrowed time, I am sure Katz and his senior time have all kinds of metrics that they use to track gms, and atitash /wildcat gms are getting killed on them, the question is who does vail have in the bullpen, do they bring Blaise carrington out of retirement, rehire the old gm of Mt snow, some combination of the two? But this is a disaster for vails reputation of quality skiing experience.

They bought too much too fast and this is the result. Broomfield makes alot of decisions and is supposed to be the support. I fully expect a bullshit apology letter from mr Katz involving lots of half truths right before next years years pass goes on sale.

Best case Vail loses money...enough to sell some areas off to include wildcat. I was there today and it was hard to see it like that. I cant even imagine last week

 

[deadheadskier]

Who knows what the folks in Broomfield co, know or don’t know, but I can’t believe they are happy with this if they are aware of it, vail is big on metrics, hard to believe they are not aware of it. Most big retail stores have mystery shoppers, hard to believe vail wouldn’t have mystery skiers at all their areas, assuming their metrics don’t pick up this mess, the mystery skiers sure would.

Here's why I think it goes beyond the local inexperienced GM F'ing up at Attitash.

This mornings snow report stated snowmaking resumes Wednesday and they will have more terrain open for the weekend. The snow is there right now on Cathedral trail to push out and open it. It's Monday. Skip grooming something else for a night and open the trail. You don't even have to open the Yankee chair if you are that short staffed. You can access that trail from the Triple via Tightrope.

Mind you, Cathedral also has a ton of slopeside homes and condos on it. Those owners must be positively livid.

I can't be convinced that cost containment directives from Colorado arent influencing at least partially what is going on at Attitash.

 

[thetrailboss]

They bought too much too fast and this is the result. Broomfield makes alot of decisions and is supposed to be the support. I fully expect a bullshit apology letter from mr Katz involving lots of half truths right before next years years pass goes on sale.

Best case Vail loses money...enough to sell some areas off to include wildcat. I was there today and it was hard to see it like that. I cant even imagine last week

I agree. Maybe it will eventually make the Epic Podcast series--"Lessons Learned from the White Mountains".

 

[Cobbold]

They bought too much too fast and this is the result. Broomfield makes alot of decisions and is supposed to be the support. I fully expect a bullshit apology letter from mr Katz involving lots of half truths right before next years years pass goes on sale.

Best case Vail loses money...enough to sell some areas off to include wildcat. I was there today and it was hard to see it like that. I cant even imagine last week

You might be right, but I think you hear from Katz within the month, if they are aware of this, can’t believe they are not, does look like they are thin in the talent pool for gms, hard to believe but here we are.

 

[Mainer]

I’ve been thinking about the million dollar homes by Abenaki that weren’t open, completely forgot about cathedral. This probably isn’t going to end well for the new gm.

 

[Cobbold]

I agree. Maybe it will eventually make the Epic Podcast series--"Lessons Learned from the White Mountains".

lol, the opposite of the Geoff Buchheister podcast

 

[Cobbold]

I’ve been thinking about the million dollar homes by Abenaki that weren’t open, completely forgot about cathedral. This probably isn’t going to end well for the new gm.

Are the Abenaki homes part of atitash?

 

[MogulMonsters]

Has anyone actually reached out to Vail or even the Attitash GM to ask WTF? Or do messages go unanswered and avoided like their poor social media manager does.....?

 

[thebigo]

Here's why I think it goes beyond the local inexperienced GM F'ing up at Attitash.

This mornings snow report stated snowmaking resumes Wednesday and they will have more terrain open for the weekend. The snow is there right now on Cathedral trail to push out and open it. It's Monday. Skip grooming something else for a night and open the trail. You don't even have to open the Yankee chair if you are that short staffed. You can access that trail from the Triple via Tightrope.

Mind you, Cathedral also has a ton of slopeside homes and condos on it. Those owners must be positively livid.

I can't be convinced that cost containment directives from Colorado arent influencing at least partially what is going on at Attitash.

It is not just cathedral, saco has looked like the picture below for a week. Why does the grooming have to be at night? Are you really telling me there was nobody at attitash today that could drive a groomer? Train someone, how hard can it be?

When I was operations manager in an industrial setting, I knew how to operate every piece of equipment in the building. If someone called in sick, I was on the floor, not sitting in my office.

Do okemo and mount snow leave whales for weeks with hour lines on holiday weekends for fixed grips next to closed high speed quads? Do they not also rely on imported labor?