VAIL SUCKS

[Smellytele]

Below is the snow report cut from the crotched website today. It is well written and informative, this is what all vail mountains should be publishing on their website everyday.

great when they only have 4 trails open. Gets a little much at a place that has over 40 open. Not that any in the east do.

 

[Cobbold]

Pop over to the Hunter thread and see for yourself. Mountain closed, with no explanation.

It may be as innocent as losing power. But no explanation? That's thanks to the "Corp"!

Hearing different things, none of them good, time Will tell

 

[thetrailboss]

well time will tell if epic steps up for the mwv pass holder, but this will put the rubber to the road for wildcat and atitash, if vail has plans to enhance These two areas to take market share from loon, Waterville valley etc, vail will announce these plans sooner than later, or maybe some suggest after COVID 19 they sell these resorts, together I don’t think you could get much for them, peak resorts had wildcat skier visits at 66 000 per there 10 k, atitash had 170000 skier visits, together you couldn’t get more than 35 million for them, but if vail is selling then people smell blood and the price drops. Unless of course vail trades them to say powder Corp for say cooper Mtn and cash, highly unlikely but who knows. My guess when vail bought peaks resorts they did so with a short term plan and a long term plan for each resort, and COVID 19, the weather, a thin gm bench exposed a vail weakness, that going forward won’t happen again, but time will tell. But while wmv epic pass holders are complaining about atitash & wildcat, over on the pugski forum ikon holders are complaining about the ikon pass reservation system, ny ski blog skiers are complaining about one of the new lifts at gore, what you gonna do,lol

I talked to a financial guru this weekend. He thinks selling any resorts would be a major problem for Vail and result in a drop in the stock price. Hence the bond offering. As much as I hate to say it, I foresee them limping along for at least another season.

 

[thetrailboss]

I'm pretty sure Vail owning Copper wouldn't fly

I don't either. Antitrust issues. Additionally, why would POWDR sell Copper for these two resorts on the east coast? Copper is one of its big resorts.

 

[Cobbold]

I talked to a financial guru this weekend. He thinks selling any resorts would be a major problem for Vail and result in a drop in the stock price. Hence the bond offering. As much as I hate to say it, I foresee them limping along for at least another season.

The key will be, if they actually go thru with lifts at okemo, keystone, Breckenridg, if they do cash flow is fine, they might have this to pay off the first 500 million which limits what they can spend, time will tell, if vail is limping, boyne,powdr and alterra are in or around the same spots

 

[Cobbold]

I don't either. Antitrust issues. Additionally, why would POWDR sell Copper for these two resorts on the east coast? Copper is one of its big resorts.

Copper was a hypothetical example, vail wouldn’t sell atitash and wild cat, just trade them and I picked copper for an example, just an example, depending on how things go, I could see vail trading with alterra with regards to deer valley, would take more than wildcat atitash though, lol

 

[thetrailboss]

Copper was a hypothetical example, vail wouldn’t sell atitash and wild cat, just trade them and I picked copper for an example, just an example, depending on how things go, I could see vail trading with alterra with regards to deer valley, would take more than wildcat atitash though, lol

I get what you are saying, but I just don't think that these folks would deal with Vail since they have all deemed Vail to be their arch rival. And if Vail can't turn these places around, why would one of these companies think they would do any better?

 

[1dog]

I talked to a financial guru this weekend. He thinks selling any resorts would be a major problem for Vail and result in a drop in the stock price. Hence the bond offering. As much as I hate to say it, I foresee them limping along for at least another season.

Maybe, but the financials show high one-time costs this year compared to last, and a lower EBITA, but all things considered, a lot of people made a lot of money on the stock - including some hedge funds that bet big. Forward earnings appear to be headed up - how can it get worse than this year? Expensive stock.

Vail Resorts, Inc. (MTN) Income Statement - Yahoo Finance

Get the detailed quarterly/annual income statement for Vail Resorts, Inc. (MTN). Find out the revenue, expenses and profit or loss over the last fiscal year.

finance.yahoo.com

 

[Smellytele]

Just thinking of this but with barely any restrictions in NH and VT having a lot more (on paper anyway) why wouldn't Vail try to increase trail count in NH over VT? Only answer is they know no one is following the rules and they encourage it.

 

[Cobbold]

I get what you are saying, but I just don't think that these folks would deal with Vail since they have all deemed Vail to be their arch rival. And if Vail can't turn these places around, why would one of these companies think they would do any better?

My guess powdr hates vail with a passion due to the park city issue

 

[thetrailboss]

My guess powdr hates vail with a passion due to the park city issue

Yep.

 

[Cobbold]

Just thinking of this but with barely any restrictions in NH and VT having a lot more (on paper anyway) why wouldn't Vail try to increase trail count in NH over VT? Only answer is they know no one is following the rules and they encourage it.

Who knows what’s going on, but I still think vail picked two gms who crapped the bed, it happens, when does vail self correct the error, in a week? next month? End of season? Who knows but the epic brand is taking a beating, the quicker the self correction, the better every one will be.

 

[jimmywilson69]

My guess powdr hates vail with a passion due to the park city issue

literally the biggest screw up in the history of skiing and should make a top 50 list of business screw ups too.

 

[Cobbold]

Yep.

Still think the big four merge into the big three, boyne and powdr at some point merge, and if alterra or vail collapse, it becomes the big two. I could see the big three, and alterra sells some of their resorts to boyne and vail, that’s how I see the post COVID 19 world

 

[thetrailboss]

Still think the big four merge into the big three, boyne and powdr at some point merge, and if alterra or vail collapse, it becomes the big two. I could see the big three, and alterra sells some of their resorts to boyne and vail, that’s how I see the post COVID 19 world

Interesting.

 

[thetrailboss]

literally the biggest screw up in the history of skiing and should make a top 50 list of business screw ups too.

Ski Utah did a podcast episode with John Cumming. The show has a lot of potential, but the host is more interested in kissing ass and not really asking hard questions. For John Cumming, the host made a bad joke about the lease issue and did not go any further. Of course the listening public would be appreciate hearing John's side of it, but they did not want to embarrass a Ski Utah member.

It's been widely reported that Cumming had laid off the accountant/manager whose responsibility was to renew the lease and it sat on the vacant desk until John saw it a few days after the deadline. It is also known that POWDR had a KILLER deal with that lease and that Talisker really wanted to renegotiate a higher lease payment since it was so ridiculously low. So Talisker was not too disappointed that POWDR blew it.

 

[abc]

It's been widely reported that Cumming had laid off the accountant/manager whose responsibility was to renew the lease and it sat on the vacant desk until John saw it a few days after the deadline. It is also known that POWDR had a KILLER deal with that lease and that Talisker really wanted to renegotiate a higher lease payment since it was so ridiculously low. So Talisker was not too disappointed that POWDR blew it.

Unless Cumming fired the guy in a hissing fit (not impossible), an exiting employee has a professional duty to do a proper transition. Something as important as a lease renewal deadline is something that should be highlighted.

Whoever it was, unless he had a very compelling story, is very unlikely to get another job anywhere.

 

[thetrailboss]

Unless Cumming fired the guy in a hissing fit (not impossible), an exiting employee has a professional duty to do a proper transition. Something as important as a lease renewal deadline is something that should be highlighted.

Whoever it was, unless he had a very compelling story, is very unlikely to get another job anywhere.

Well, it still fell on Cumming to handle it and he didn't.

 

[eatskisleep]

literally the biggest screw up in the history of skiing and should make a top 50 list of business screw ups too.

I’m out of the loop, what happened?

 

[abc]

Well, it still fell on Cumming to handle it and he didn't.

Yes, but as the saying goes "it takes TWO mistake to make a disaster"!

Though it's possible the two mistakes are both Cummings, by not having someone to take over the work of the guy he fired/laid off/whatever.