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VAIL SUCKS

thebigo

Well-known member
Joined
May 15, 2005
Messages
1,461
Points
113
Location
NH seacoast
Graduate level engineer here with 17 years in the hydro industry. Overhauled bear swamp either two or three times, rocky mountain twice and Ludington once. Consulted on countless hydro overhauls in canada and the US for the last decade. If our society is serious about converting to wind and solar, pumped storage is the path forward.

And bullshit on the geographic limitations. Mankind has cut the top off of countless mountains to dig coal, we can build ponds on the top of hills if we choose a green future.
 
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SkiNewEngland.net

New member
Joined
Mar 12, 2022
Messages
5
Points
3
They're hooked up to the grid, so it doesn't really matter when they generate. Not like excess gets dumped. If there happens to be excess in the area the can fill the giant battery that is Bear Swamp Reservoir.
Correct, their surplus exports during the warmer months feed back into the grid and power the local community at the time of generation.

They do not own Bear Swamp, though, so their spring/summer/fall surplus electricity is not held in the reservoir as reserve water for Berkshire East's future electric consumption. Even if there was a storage agreement and the surplus power was literally sent there, there would be significant energy loss between the mountain, converting from distribution to transmission voltage, pumping water into the upper reservoir, then reversing that flow at times of snowmaking.

Winter snowmaking in New England is largely reliant on fossil fuels and nuclear. Summertime solar generation offsets it on paper.
 

jaytrem

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 22, 2007
Messages
1,605
Points
63
Correct, their surplus exports during the warmer months feed back into the grid and power the local community at the time of generation.

They do not own Bear Swamp, though, so their spring/summer/fall surplus electricity is not held in the reservoir as reserve water for Berkshire East's future electric consumption. Even if there was a storage agreement and the surplus power was literally sent there, there would be significant energy loss between the mountain, converting from distribution to transmission voltage, pumping water into the upper reservoir, then reversing that flow at times of snowmaking.

Winter snowmaking in New England is largely reliant on fossil fuels and nuclear. Summertime solar generation offsets it on paper.
Who gives a shit how it works? Either they generate more than they use or they don't. Splitting hairs nonsense.

Question, are you Rocket/Threec?
 

2Planker

Well-known member
Joined
May 16, 2007
Messages
1,005
Points
63
Location
Conway NH
Who gives a shit how it works? Either they generate more than they use or they don't. Splitting hairs nonsense.

Question, are you Rocket/Threec?
AGREE 100 % In NE you only have 8-9 hours of daylight in the middle of winter But in the summer it is almost double that.

My buddy's house is 100% solar for elec & heat/AC. Combo Radiant Floor and Forced Hot Air
Hooked up to the grid, he earns $3,000+ credit April-Oct, then basically uses that up all winter.
Cost about $25-$30K to install https://smartflower.com/
 

Newpylong

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 20, 2005
Messages
3,961
Points
83
Location
Upper Valley, NH
Wind would be a non-starter in VT for Killington on USFS land or high altitude terrain. Solar could certainly help offset (over the course of the year) their winter utilization, but they would need a hell of a lot of it. Not sure what there is for underutilized owned land for that, probably not much. Places like Jiminy Peak and Berkshire East use a fraction of the kWh that Killington uses, so it's far easier for them to claim that their windmills entirely pay for snowmaking. Between all of the pumps and compressors Killington sits around 15,000 horsepower just in snowmaking alone on the electric side.
 

bigbob

Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2007
Messages
545
Points
18
Location
SE NH
Wind would be a non-starter in VT for Killington on USFS land or high altitude terrain. Solar could certainly help offset (over the course of the year) their winter utilization, but they would need a hell of a lot of it. Not sure what there is for underutilized owned land for that, probably not much. Places like Jiminy Peak and Berkshire East use a fraction of the kWh that Killington uses, so it's far easier for them to claim that their windmills entirely pay for snowmaking. Between all of the pumps and compressors Killington sits around 15,000 horsepower just in snowmaking alone on the electric side.
Killington is located in the Calvin Coolage State forest land or private land as I recall.
 

machski

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Joined
Sep 5, 2014
Messages
3,071
Points
83
Location
Northwood, NH (Sunday River, ME)
Ok, I stand corrected. The summit terminus does just touch the WMNF boundary. The balance of the line does not. And since they were replacing really two lifts which with the Double Double configuration was a wider span than the replacement lift, this was about as much a clear breakaway layup as you can get. Though Vail sea to have navigated the process rather easily for the Summit Express coming next year. That had been a big part of past ownership excuses as to why this hadn't happened yet.
 

Newpylong

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Joined
Dec 20, 2005
Messages
3,961
Points
83
Location
Upper Valley, NH
I think it was exactly that, an excuse (for both ASC and Peak.) They may have unnofficially made inquiries but there never was a serious attempt to even see if it would be feasible. They just did not want to put the money into the place on that lift despite their entire clientele screaming for it.
 

drjeff

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Joined
Jan 18, 2006
Messages
18,195
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113
Location
Brooklyn, CT
The heavy lift copter will apparently be at Mount Snow Monday afternoon through Thursday flying concrete for the new lifts this week
 

thebigo

Well-known member
Joined
May 15, 2005
Messages
1,461
Points
113
Location
NH seacoast
Always questioned the forest service excuse for the flying yankee given the top terminal is on forest service land. Yankee was put in around the time of the hotel, suspect real estate may have played a more significant role.

If the attitash summit quad actually happens and they actually operate the lift, it will be the first positive thing vail has done for NH skiing. Doesnt begin to correct the damage they have done to their other properties but a step in the right direction. The Attitash side should be fun midweek with a high speed, may even break my boycott to check it out for a day if in the area.
 

drjeff

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Joined
Jan 18, 2006
Messages
18,195
Points
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Location
Brooklyn, CT
Sounds like someone needs to an excuse to go to VT and get some video lol.
Wish I could. Have to play the role of chaperone and BBQ pit master at my house in CT today for a party my 16yr old son his having this afternoon, then that work thing gets in the way the rest of the week!

Hoping one of my neighbors, who is up at his condo there now (about 100 yards from mine) gets a few pictures and sends them to me. If he does, I will certainly post them!
 

deadheadskier

Moderator
Staff member
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Joined
Mar 6, 2005
Messages
26,998
Points
113
Location
Southeast NH
Always questioned the forest service excuse for the flying yankee given the top terminal is on forest service land. Yankee was put in around the time of the hotel, suspect real estate may have played a more significant role.

If the attitash summit quad actually happens and they actually operate the lift, it will be the first positive thing vail has done for NH skiing. Doesnt begin to correct the damage they have done to their other properties but a step in the right direction. The Attitash side should be fun midweek with a high speed, may even break my boycott to check it out for a day if in the area.

After the new Attitash lift goes in, I'll probably start buying 2 or 3 day passes a year. One for Tash and a couple for Cat.

I don't see myself ever going back to full Epic short of massive improvements in how they operate. Basically I want to see a product that's better than what Peak provided.
 

Newpylong

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Joined
Dec 20, 2005
Messages
3,961
Points
83
Location
Upper Valley, NH
Wish I could. Have to play the role of chaperone and BBQ pit master at my house in CT today for a party my 16yr old son his having this afternoon, then that work thing gets in the way the rest of the week!

Hoping one of my neighbors, who is up at his condo there now (about 100 yards from mine) gets a few pictures and sends them to me. If he does, I will certainly post them!
Hopefully the mountain starts to cover it more now than the fun part is starting. 2 lifts and a bunch of snowmaking for Sundance area... they should be all over it. But it is Vail, that one GM video was awkward at best...
 

MikeDeJ

Member
Joined
Jul 22, 2019
Messages
33
Points
8
Hopefully the mountain starts to cover it more now than the fun part is starting. 2 lifts and a bunch of snowmaking for Sundance area... they should be all over it. But it is Vail, that one GM video was awkward at best...
It was interesting watching how quick they ran up the concrete. Each trip was about 2-3 minutes. Roughly 1 yard. They need to take around 360 trips over 3 days9595FE9B-76E2-4A67-8152-4B9956983E7A.jpeg64CA465D-927E-4470-8512-C7560C159B76.jpeg9595FE9B-76E2-4A67-8152-4B9956983E7A.jpeg64CA465D-927E-4470-8512-C7560C159B76.jpeg
 
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