VAIL SUCKS

[Edd]

I have one big issue with Stowe...SB has 80 runs open now..and before the storm they were almost 100% open...Stowe...30%
So to me it's like going to the buffet..paying full price...and getting 5 dishes to choose from.....and pay to park on weekends.
Really???

Has SB scored significantly more natural than Stowe so far? Those numbers don’t make sense.

 

[KustyTheKlown]

It’s about stowe/vail being pussies and sugarbush being liberal about letting the skier decide for themselves. and i guess on alterra allowing local ops teams to make those calls

south of 89 did better in the big storm than north of 89. but not THAT much better and i bet Stowe has picked up more lake effect showers. they’re just pussy bitches.

 

[SLyardsale]

no mention of the eb5 / west lake upgrade by peak from the vail expert. pats peaks sucks too. no one goes there anymore.

 

[Kingslug20]

You can't ski a stowe run if a rock pops out..except mid season.
No idea their reasoning...

 

[thetrailboss]

I have one big issue with Stowe...SB has 80 runs open now..and before the storm they were almost 100% open...Stowe...30%
So to me it's like going to the buffet..paying full price...and getting 5 dishes to choose from.....and pay to park on weekends.
Really???

Sounds like an EPIC offering to me.

 

[ThatGuy]

They have no reasoning. You’ll ski one trail wondering why its even open then get to another and wonder why its closed as you duck the ropes.

 

[ThatGuy]

Maybe no one wants to work ski patrol for them so they can’t open shit. That’s all I can think of.

 

[thetrailboss]

Maybe no one wants to work ski patrol for them so they can’t open shit. That’s all I can think of.

Was it this bad under AIG?

 

[thebigo]

When you lose a GM in the fall who did nothing over the summer to prepare for the season, the new GM had an impossible task and she did (and continues to do) an admirable job.

There are many valid things for which to blame Vail - many of them discussed over the almost 400 pages of this thread. Crotched's problems last season were not Vail related.

Joshua, do you actually believe that?

What you just described is malice on the part of the former GM.

Malice by local management is almost always the result of toxic leadership.

 

[jaytrem]

Mount Snow patrol has always been pretty good about opening "thin cover" trail. They just put up a warning sign and let you have at it. I really hope that doesn't change.

 

[rebel1916]

Today at Okemo there was no sucking.

If this is true, it would be the first time in Okemo history there was no sucking...

 

[joshua segal]

Joshua, do you actually believe that?

What you just described is malice on the part of the former GM.

Malice by local management is almost always the result of toxic leadership.

That is true. From the time he was transferred from Mount Snow by Peak, he expressed nothing but contempt for the mountain and did create a toxic work environment for much of the staff. The new GM is the first in over a decade who really likes our mountain and is creating a very cooperative work environment. She is creating a positivity that is reflected in all aspects of mountain ops.

 

[eatskisleep]

It is good to see that Vail is this season doing written snow reports too. Nate W used to do great snow reports for there and Attitash. Not sure who is doing the current but at least there is something! On another note, the storm really wiped out Wildcat huh? It was at 77% open. Now just 12 trails. Gonna be a tough Christmas week up there.

 

[deadheadskier]

Utter nonsense: Last season Crotched was unable to hire due to the strong economy (under 2% unemployment in NH). This season, with the $20 per hour minimum wage, Crotched is fully staffed, 7-days a week, snowmaking whenever there is the elusive thing called cold weather, 5-days a week of night skiing, Midnight Madness is back, there are extended hours in the cafeteria and the bar, etc.

When you lose a GM in the fall who did nothing over the summer to prepare for the season, the new GM had an impossible task and she did (and continues to do) an admirable job.

There are many valid things for which to blame Vail - many of them discussed over the almost 400 pages of this thread. Crotched's problems last season were not Vail related.

I'm happy you are fully staffed this year. Your excuses for last year are a copout and erroneous. 2020-21 I could accept your analysis. Not last year. Pat's had no problem staffing (or at least it wasn't a noticeable problem) and didn't reduce hours. They draw from the same general population as Crotched for workers Plenty of other places also did far better with staffing last season. Gunstock ran well, Cannon, Ragged, Loon.

And looking at the snowmaking efforts of the four NH Vail properties this season, the efforts are still substandard to prior ownership. Maybe it's no longer staffing and just an austerity budget. It's been a tough year for weather, but others are doing far better. Sunapee should be right there with Loon in terms of open terrain and typically was under the Mueller's.

I don't see anything compelling to win my business back. I think I know what I'm looking at from afar too, having been a pass holder at those mountains 2012 through 2020, with 2015 being the loan exception.

 

[Kingslug20]

Still amazed that Stowe has let almost all of the diamond and double d's remain closed.
Only 1 trail off the gondola...
They are finaly blowing nosedive..but it's almost January.
I know they lost power but that's solved.
Not spending much time there lately....

 

[eatskisleep]

Still amazed that Stowe has let almost all of the diamond and double d's remain closed.
Only 1 trail off the gondola...
They are finaly blowing nosedive..but it's almost January.
I know they lost power but that's solved.
Not spending much time there lately....

I still stand by my comment in the other thread that Stowe is overrated. Sad what it has become.

 

[doublediamond]

One thing to note about snowmaking at Vail areas is that for the most part they make snow deep and resurface only when necessary. They don’t hop back to the same trail many times. Eearly season it’s very slow to open terrain but that snow depth is deep.

Last year I was at Sunapee early season and they had 4-5 foot depths on the terrain that was open, but only 3 ways down from the top INCLUDING nothing open on the bunny area despite being open for weeks. They could be easily had double the terrain open (and this is still excluding the pillaging on the Sunapee snowmaking team to boost the Okemo snowmaking team they did last year).

It’s an approach that works out west but it doesn’t work in the east. They refuse to adapt.

 

[SLyardsale]

I'm happy you are fully staffed this year. Your excuses for last year are a copout and erroneous. 2020-21 I could accept your analysis. Not last year. Pat's had no problem staffing (or at least it wasn't a noticeable problem) and didn't reduce hours. They draw from the same general population as Crotched for workers Plenty of other places also did far better with staffing last season. Gunstock ran well, Cannon, Ragged, Loon.

And looking at the snowmaking efforts of the four NH Vail properties this season, the efforts are still substandard to prior ownership. Maybe it's no longer staffing and just an austerity budget. It's been a tough year for weather, but others are doing far better. Sunapee should be right there with Loon in terms of open terrain and typically was under the Mueller's.

I don't see anything compelling to win my business back. I think I know what I'm looking at from afar too, having been a pass holder at those mountains 2012 through 2020, with 2015 being the loan exception.

If there is an interest, you can read along with Crotched insiders on last year's struggles / excuses for Crotched over at the Vail Corp ski chat: Crotched 21-22

And, I continue to find this interesting as currently more posts ring up here on AZ than on SJ

 

[oldfartrider]

Early season Stowe this year was way better than the bush. The bush had the same terrain open for weeks which was one trail off the valley chair and those few boring runs at gatehouse. The quality of the snow was also much better at Stowe than the bush.

 

[drjeff]

One thing to note about snowmaking at Vail areas is that for the most part they make snow deep and resurface only when necessary. They don’t hop back to the same trail many times. Eearly season it’s very slow to open terrain but that snow depth is deep.

Last year I was at Sunapee early season and they had 4-5 foot depths on the terrain that was open, but only 3 ways down from the top INCLUDING nothing open on the bunny area despite being open for weeks. They could be easily had double the terrain open (and this is still excluding the pillaging on the Sunapee snowmaking team to boost the Okemo snowmaking team they did last year).

It’s an approach that works out west but it doesn’t work in the east. They refuse to adapt.

One could argue that Killington, and other non Vail ski areas as well, have started to adopt this strategy too, especially since it seems that more rain events as the season ramps up, is becoming a regular thing, and ski areas seem to be adapting to this by putting down deeper bases on snowmaking terrain as they roll those trails out to try and prevent a melt out that would cause them to have to go back to square 1 and completely recover a trail, almost from scratch, after a rain event(s).

Some ski areas just simply have more snowmaking firepower than others, and this shift in season starting strategies, combined with not so much natural snow help that sticks around for a while courtesy of mother nature, exposes this. I mean has anyone ever really condsidered places like Sugarbush, Stowe and Jay top tier with their snowmaking firepower? And arguably one can say that while Killington has a TON of sheer size firepower they also have to deal with the fact that their system is as efficient as other resorts,, almost to the point where it's not far fetched to say that while their system is in the say top 3 or 5 in the East, it's not the #1 system in the East anymore when it comes to how quickly and efficiently they can cover multiple trails with enough snow to comfortably let them move onto new terrain to work on opening up

The reality is if you look at trail counts and acreage open right now (as it seems like another warm up and liquid event is just a few days away) the ski areas, both large and small from South to North, known for their snowmaking firepower, in general seem to be doing OK trail count wise, whereas the ski areas who often rely more on natural snow, tend to be struggling more, across most of New England ski country, right now