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VAIL SUCKS

joshua segal

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 31, 2014
Messages
1,014
Points
63
Location
Southern NH
Website
skikabbalah.com
So, I've been a moderator here for probably 12 years or so now. I've come to believe that less moderation is the better way. I didn't always feel that way. In fact, I'd say the first five years or so I was probably the most uptight moderator of our group in regards to rule enforcement. I was very quick to shutdown political discussions and personal attacks. It was rooted in wanting to keep the peace, but those decisions often resulted in even less peace.

We still don't really want politics or personal attacks here, but mostly let them slide unless it's a real nuisance with lots of reported posts. So by enlarge we just let the conversations go where they may. People are always free to not read them if they don't like the topics or direction. For the most part the forum moderates itself, the folks here are largely good people with a shared passion, spats don't last long.

I'll clean up the spam and alert Nick about technical issues. That's been about it for a few years now. Couple testy times during the height of Covid, but that's about it.

But, perhaps Snow journal is going for something different. I'm not member over there, but occasionally browse. Lots of good content.
I've been an SJ moderator for about the same length of time. In that time, I locked one thread and sent two PMs warning people about personal attacks. The SJ crowd is different from the AZ crowd and people gravitate to where they are comfortable.
 

jaytrem

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 22, 2007
Messages
2,013
Points
83
Echo chamber?
No, more like team Vail versus team Anti-Vail and a few of us in the middle. I can't complain about how Vail has run things at Mount Snow. Just not a fan of the addition paid parking. But I do see the lousy job they're doing at a number of other areas and feel for the people who have to deal with any type of pass refund or off snow customer service.
 

Harvey

Well-known member
Joined
May 19, 2007
Messages
1,294
Points
83
Location
North River, NY
Website
nyskiblog.com
So, I've been a moderator here for probably 12 years or so now. I've come to believe that less moderation is the better way. I didn't always feel that way. In fact, I'd say the first five years or so I was probably the most uptight moderator of our group in regards to rule enforcement. I was very quick to shutdown political discussions and personal attacks. It was rooted in wanting to keep the peace, but those decisions often resulted in even less peace.

We still don't really want politics or personal attacks here, but mostly let them slide unless it's a real nuisance with lots of reported posts. So by enlarge we just let the conversations go where they may. People are always free to not read them if they don't like the topics or direction. For the most part the forum moderates itself, the folks here are largely good people with a shared passion, spats don't last long.

I'll clean up the spam and alert Nick about technical issues. That's been about it for a few years now. Couple testy times during the height of Covid, but that's about it.

But, perhaps Snow journal is going for something different. I'm not member over there, but occasionally browse. Lots of good content.

+100.

IMO DHS is one of the best mods in the East. (I don't really follow the West or Europe). It's hard to keep a forum alive and vibrant when the owner checks out — no rag on Nick, life takes us in different directions — I give DHS a lot of credit for his work keeping this place going.

I've been a mod since 2010 at NYSB, and I've learned the same lessons above.

To me the challenge is separating the mod from the passionate skier. I've got all kinds of strongly held opinions, and I like to express them in our forum. It's hard to avoid people conflating my own personal opinion with POLICY for the website. People turn "Harv said X" into "NYSB is the place where X is the rule."

Carry on. :)
 

trackbiker

Active member
Joined
Feb 8, 2005
Messages
357
Points
28
Location
Eastern PA
No, more like team Vail versus team Anti-Vail and a few of us in the middle. I can't complain about how Vail has run things at Mount Snow. Just not a fan of the addition paid parking. But I do see the lousy job they're doing at a number of other areas and feel for the people who have to deal with any type of pass refund or off snow customer service.
I agree that there are a lot of people who have no idea what is involved with running a ski area from snowmaking to lessons. Joshua has every right to respond to these criticisms by explaining difficulties with weather, staffing,etc. But it seemed to me that Joshua Segal and at least one other Crotched employee, took, and responded like, any criticism of Vail was a personal attack. I never remember anyone on SJ criticizing the employees who work at any individual mountain. Yes, they criticized the upper management in Colorado but not the work-a-day employees. Any business that does not listen to complaints is bound to lose business as was evidenced by the sale of season passes being down 12% this year. In my opinion, it was Joshua Segal and his inability to take any criticism of his employer, and rather took it personally, who caused the problem at SJ.
 

joshua segal

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 31, 2014
Messages
1,014
Points
63
Location
Southern NH
Website
skikabbalah.com
I agree that there are a lot of people who have no idea what is involved with running a ski area from snowmaking to lessons. Joshua has every right to respond to these criticisms by explaining difficulties with weather, staffing,etc. But it seemed to me that Joshua Segal and at least one other Crotched employee, took, and responded like, any criticism of Vail was a personal attack. I never remember anyone on SJ criticizing the employees who work at any individual mountain. Yes, they criticized the upper management in Colorado but not the work-a-day employees. Any business that does not listen to complaints is bound to lose business as was evidenced by the sale of season passes being down 12% this year. In my opinion, it was Joshua Segal and his inability to take any criticism of his employer, and rather took it personally, who caused the problem at SJ.
You said above, "But it seemed to me that Joshua Segal and at least one other Crotched employee, took, and responded like, any criticism of Vail was a personal attack."

I think you are mistaking "seems to me" as being a fact. Feelings are not facts.

Personal attack is when someone calls me a D-bag, an A-hole or an S-head, because they don't like my POV.

That being said, if you can cite something that someone ever said about Vail that I claimed to be a personal attack, I would be grateful if you cited it - and since this is mostly about things that happened on SJ, SJ might be a more appropriate venue for this aspect of the discussion. The thread of the same name is still active on SJ.
 

trackbiker

Active member
Joined
Feb 8, 2005
Messages
357
Points
28
Location
Eastern PA
You said above, "But it seemed to me that Joshua Segal and at least one other Crotched employee, took, and responded like, any criticism of Vail was a personal attack."

I think you are mistaking "seems to me" as being a fact. Feelings are not facts.

Personal attack is when someone calls me a D-bag, an A-hole or an S-head, because they don't like my POV.

That being said, if you can cite something that someone ever said about Vail that I claimed to be a personal attack, I would be grateful if you cited it - and since this is mostly about things that happened on SJ, SJ might be a more appropriate venue for this aspect of the discussion. The thread of the same name is still active on SJ.
I never said that anyone made a personal attack on you. Quite the opposite. Quote, " Yes, they criticized the upper management in Colorado but not the work-a-day employees". I said you took it as a personal attack and responded like it was a personal attack.
I've sold custom production line equipment for over 30 years. I've had more than a few unhappy customers call me and complain about something. Sometimes our fault and sometimes the customers. I learned a long time ago not to dismiss their complaints and make excuses, or blame it on them. It's much better to acknowledge their complaint, right, wrong, or indifferent, and tell them you will work to correct it, and then do it.
 

trackbiker

Active member
Joined
Feb 8, 2005
Messages
357
Points
28
Location
Eastern PA
Just an afterthought; It appears to me from posts above that you personally caused two long time, knowledgeable contributors to leave SJ and have done nothing to endear them to Vail. How have your responses been working out?
I do hope that they come back to SJ.
 

oldfartrider

Active member
Joined
Dec 9, 2021
Messages
190
Points
28
Location
Nashua
Went to Crotched today and conditions were amazing. They must of blown a ton of snow the surface was like riding a carpet.
 

Mum skier

Active member
Joined
Jan 25, 2021
Messages
149
Points
28
Let’s get back on track to Vail sucking please
Today at Okemo there was no sucking. Great effort to de ice lifts and get most things open by lunch time and all scheduled lifts by later in the day. No crowds, no lines and all things considered the runs were in better than expected conditions. You would not want to wipe out and fall as very hard surfac, but if you enjoy hard and fast surface it was good. Only bad thing was any lifts that had not been put away for the night were covered in a coat of ice which was a bit chilly 🥶 on the behind going up!
 

Ski2LiveLive2Ski

Active member
Joined
Mar 20, 2013
Messages
650
Points
43
Today at Okemo there was no sucking. Great effort to de ice lifts and get most things open by lunch time and all scheduled lifts by later in the day. No crowds, no lines and all things considered the runs were in better than expected conditions. You would not want to wipe out and fall as very hard surfac, but if you enjoy hard and fast surface it was good. Only bad thing was any lifts that had not been put away for the night were covered in a coat of ice which was a bit chilly 🥶 on the behind going up!
Looking forward to 9am open tomorrow
 
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