VAIL SUCKS

[ss20]

I could follow the conversations of my crazy ex better than this thread.

Muffins, Vail sucks, Black, SR, bumping chairs, daytrip drive tolerance, customer service everywhere sucks, Cranmore.

 

[Kingslug20]

Lions...tigers...bears...oh my...

 

[Ski2LiveLive2Ski]

There's a lot of factors. I don't mind 2.5 hours for a day trip , but not both days each weekend. I like skiing both days each weekend and don't want to devote 10 hours or more of that weekend to time spent in the car. Especially after I already spend 15 - 25 hours a week driving to visit my work customers.

So, when I had Epic Pass, I did 2:15 to Wildcat on Saturdays and 1:15/20 to Crotched or Sunapee on Sundays. Now I often do 2 hours on Saturday to an Indy mountain and 1 hour to Gunstock on Sundays. And if it isn't worth the extra travel, I'll do Gunstock both days.

I would love iKon, but couldn't do it as my sole pass as Loon is just too crowded for my interests to ski regularly and Sunday River is 2.5 from me like snoseek.

If I am skiing 2 days on a weekend I am getting a hotel before I am doing an extra 4 hrs driving. If I figure the cost of the drive is about $60 including depreciation - a $100 bed is well worth not spending 4 hrs driving, often on slick roads.

 

[deadheadskier]

If I am skiing 2 days on a weekend I am getting a hotel before I am doing an extra 4 hrs driving. If I figure the cost of the drive is about $60 including depreciation - a $100 bed is well worth not spending 4 hrs driving, often on slick roads.

I do that several times a winter, but it isn't in the cards every single weekend while bringing a family in tow. I also don't want to put our dog in the kennel every weekend.

And do you have a time machine to get those $100 rooms? Sounds like pre-pandemic pricing. Haha

 

[jaytrem]

Still vail sucks more

Probably true, just more subtle.

 

[Ski2LiveLive2Ski]

I do that several times a winter, but it isn't in the cards every single weekend while bringing a family in tow. I also don't want to put our dog in the kennel every weekend.

And do you have a time machine to get those $100 rooms? Sounds like pre-pandemic pricing. Haha

Yeah a dog would make a difference. A key reason I don't have one, though I love my parents having one nearby I can visit (and often board for them)

Using Priceline and Expedia I regularly find decent $100-125 rooms with breakfast in nearby towns like Saugerties, Bennington, Brattleboro, Putney, Waterville, Rutland. If a hotel turns a 6 to 12 hr round-trip into a 60-90 minute one between ski days and includes breakfast it is well worth it to me.

 

[AdironRider]

I'll paste my story from last year. Never seen any employee in any business ever behave like him....


Around 2:30 we were enjoying some runs off the triple. When we got to the bottom two people were putting up a new rope that went from the base of the triple out about 15-20 feet perpendicular to the lift corral (basically empty by the way). I couldn't see the rope too well, but could see them putting it up, so it caused me no problem. One of my kids was still up the hill messing around with some power or something so I was just standing there for a minute or two. So now the rope is up and apparently VERY hard to see. Yes it was orange, but it looks like it was 20 years old, and no ribbons on it. Skier after skier obviously can't see it. But one of the employees starts yelling at anybody that comes even close to his rope. Eventually a female snowboarder, maybe around 30 years old, has some trouble just above the rope. It must have been a little slick, even though she was coming in very slow, she slid under the rope a bit. She didn't seem overly skilled, was kinda floundering on the ground. That was it!!! He starts chewing in to her, telling her she's blind and threatening to take her ticket. Bending over with hands on his knees, totally getting in her face. I think she was apologizing and saying she didn't see the rope. But I could hear him a lot better than her. Meanwhile the other employee seems to realize the rope is a terrible idea and she starts to taking it down. I chimed in a bit and was also told that I'm too blind to be skiing. I know I at one point I said something like "you're gonna chop somebody's head off with that stupid rope". Anyway, my 2nd kid shows up and so does snowboarder's husband (as I later found out). We don't stick around to see the end result. His behavior does irk me for the lift ride though. We have another nice run and head back to the triple. The rope is now back up and much more visible due to the many ribbons now tied to it. The inappropriate employee is now talking to a patroller and nobody is being yelled at anymore. I could tell they were finishing up and decided to wait at the top so that I could speak with the patroller. He was super nice and when I asked the question "who's that guy you were speaking with down there", he sighed and said "that's the owner". He no doubt knew why I was asking and the sigh made me think this wasn't the first time he's seen such behavior. He also said the snowboarder's husband showed up and they "talked things out". I'd be shocked if they ever return, and honestly, I was pretty turned off myself. Say what you want about Vail, but I suspect they would immediately fire anyone that behaved like that. Such a shame, we had such a nice day otherwise, but my main memory of that day will forever be some poor lady having John get in her face. Like I said, seeing his face literally turns my stomach a bit, no way a guest deserves to be treated that way.

This story makes no sense. A lift corral is standard operating procedure everywhere and if you were to blast into it you are going to get some shit from a liftie, again everywhere.

I'm just not buying it. You didn't hear a word about this until the backcountry crowd got pissed they weren't getting free access and unrestricted use of the lodge.

If someone was that bad the reputation would precede, but it was crickets prior.

 

[pinion]

You didn't hear a word about this until the backcountry crowd got pissed they weren't getting free access and unrestricted use of the lodge.

Untrue. John's issues have been well documented for years. Sure, things might get overblown - and I really didn't follow the backcountry issues last year close enough to comment - but brashness is the guy's calling card. Personally I've never seen it on the mountain, but you don't have to hang around the MWV for too long to hear this stuff.

Either way, Black is a true Indy resort struggling to survive. This year can't be helping things. Hopefully they find a path forward... we need non-Vail options in the valley other than Cranmore. Vail sucks.

 

[AdironRider]

"Well documented", except literally no documentation exists prior to Ski the Whites taking advantage of him.

 

[jaytrem]

This story makes no sense. A lift corral is standard operating procedure everywhere and if you were to blast into it you are going to get some shit from a liftie, again everywhere.

I'm just not buying it. You didn't hear a word about this until the backcountry crowd got pissed they weren't getting free access and unrestricted use of the lodge.

If someone was that bad the reputation would precede, but it was crickets prior.

This is not a 2nd hand story, it's what I witnessed. If you're accusing me of making this up, then I have to agree with Deadhead's assessment of you. To clarify, the rope was not for a lift corral, the corral was set up in the other direction all day. I'm not sure why they decided to put up a random nearly invisible rope at 2:30 in the afternoon, what little crowd they had was long gone. The lady that was being berated did not come "blasting" in at all, she clearly did not have the skills to "blast". She was slipping on the slick stuff after coming in very slowly. Oddly enough, the rope wouldn't do anything to slow you down if you wanted to blast across the base area, just made accessing the corral slightly more difficult, still makes no sense to me, especially with the time of day.

 

[jaytrem]

"Well documented", except literally no documentation exists prior to Ski the Whites taking advantage of him.

What's up with you basically calling people liars? I rarely visit up that way, but had heard he was quite a grump. Never imagined he was as bad as what I witnessed though.

 

[deadheadskier]

Yeah a dog would make a difference. A key reason I don't have one, though I love my parents having one nearby I can visit (and often board for them)

Using Priceline and Expedia I regularly find decent $100-125 rooms with breakfast in nearby towns like Saugerties, Bennington, Brattleboro, Putney, Waterville, Rutland. If a hotel turns a 6 to 12 hr round-trip into a 60-90 minute one between ski days and includes breakfast it is well worth it to me.

Love the dog, but wife's decision. I always had cats before meeting my wife. Freedom to ski and travel at the drop of the hat was a big reason why I didn't have a dog and had cats instead. I don't think rigor mortis set in yet when my last cat died and my wife was saying it's time for her to get a dog.

 

[AdironRider]

This is not a 2nd hand story, it's what I witnessed. If you're accusing me of making this up, then I have to agree with Deadhead's assessment of you. To clarify, the rope was not for a lift corral, the corral was set up in the other direction all day. I'm not sure why they decided to put up a random nearly invisible rope at 2:30 in the afternoon, what little crowd they had was long gone. The lady that was being berated did not come "blasting" in at all, she clearly did not have the skills to "blast". She was slipping on the slick stuff after coming in very slowly. Oddly enough, the rope wouldn't do anything to slow you down if you wanted to blast across the base area, just made accessing the corral slightly more difficult, still makes no sense to me, especially with the time of day.

1) There is literally no documentation online of this owner supposedly flying off the handle prior to last year, and even then, he was perfectly within his rights when 500 people show up, and over 400 refuse to pay. That was admitted by Ski the Whites when they only remitted payment for 100 tickets. Let alone the liquor license issue, which basically gave him no choice.

2) I don't doubt someone got a stern talking to when taking out a rope line surrounding the base of lift. It is your assessment of that situation and the idea that you wouldn't get said stern talking to anywhere else if you crashed into one that I disagree with.

 

[pinion]

"Well documented", except literally no documentation exists prior to Ski the Whites taking advantage of him.

Ok, you got me on semantics. "Well storied"... does that work? Two things can exist at once here: Black Mountain's owner is a difficult person, and he is also doing god's work operating a mountain independently. The MWV is full of strange and difficult personalities running businesses... nothing new here.

 

[deadheadskier]

"Well documented", except literally no documentation exists prior to Ski the Whites taking advantage of him.

I mean I guess you are right, it hasn't been "well documented." By documentation it's really only social media we are talking about. Though maybe there were some news articles on the Ski the Whites rift.

"Known asshole locally" is perhaps a more accurate assessment. I haven't experienced it personally, but have heard from many WMV people over the years that the guy is an unhinged prick quite often. His reputation extends far further back than the Ski the Whites situation.

 

[jaytrem]

2) I don't doubt someone got a stern talking to when taking out a rope line surrounding the base of lift. It is your assessment of that situation and the idea that you wouldn't get said stern talking to anywhere else if you crashed into one that I disagree with.

There's a big difference between a stern talking to and getting a foot from a woman's face, hands on your knees yelling. If that was your wife, I suspect you would not have been too happy. And I do not think that would have happened anywhere else, he's a special kind of asshole. The woman who was helping with the rope obviously realized it was a bad idea and removed it until the could make it more visible with the ribbons. That's basically admitting they made a mistake with it. Shoudn't be a big deal, unless the owner a kook. Not sure why you're so intent on defending the guy. It's very odd.

 

[Mainer]

The owner of black probably works harder then any other ski area owner. He runs the groomer, bumps chairs, fills in for everyone that doesn’t show up to work. Every year is a struggle for him to break even, especially shit years like this one. I’ve been there countless times mid week where I am one of the couple people riding. His wife works full time at the hospital to make ends meet. He may lose his shit sometimes, but you know he loves the mountain. He may lose his shit sometimes, but you know he loves the mountain. Black is awesome

 

[jaytrem]

The owner of black probably works harder then any other ski area owner. He runs the groomer, bumps chairs, fills in for everyone that doesn’t show up to work. Every year is a struggle for him to break even, especially shit years like this one. I’ve been there countless times mid week where I am one of the couple people riding. His wife works full time at the hospital to make ends meet. He may lose his shit sometimes, but you know he loves the mountain. He may lose his shit sometimes, but you know he loves the mountain. Black is awesome

I don't doubt that. But there is NO excuse for what I witnessed. You do stuff like that and people are going to talk about it and harm your own business.

 

[thetrailboss]

The owner of black probably works harder then any other ski area owner. He runs the groomer, bumps chairs, fills in for everyone that doesn’t show up to work. Every year is a struggle for him to break even, especially shit years like this one. I’ve been there countless times mid week where I am one of the couple people riding. His wife works full time at the hospital to make ends meet. He may lose his shit sometimes, but you know he loves the mountain. He may lose his shit sometimes, but you know he loves the mountain. Black is awesome

Yeah, that's what sucks. People hate the bigger, largely anonymous, corporate resorts. But when you are a Mom and Pop area, you can have a public persona at times when you don't want one.

 

[thetrailboss]

that's too bad about black. one of my favorite mountains.

Is that you or Creepy Rob Katz speaking?