VAIL SUCKS

[BodeMiller1]

Nope.

Just figured that since I love this sport, taking some time over the years to ask some questions of industry folks who I have been fortunate enough to get to know, and have an actual knowledge base (and really often like to share their knowledge base to others) as to what really goes into ski area operations from off season maintenance to lift construction to snowmaking and grooming and lift operations, made way more sense than ranting online about how things I really didn't know as much about as I thought I did, should be going.

Not a bad lifestyle choice to be curious more than being criticizing

No. I like to ski and I know insiders. I participate in corporate espionage.

I am curious about other life styles.

 

[thetrailboss]

It's like catering PETA's Annual Convention and offering unlimited filet mignon.

Oh you are going to fit in REALLY well into the Wasatch Back! But have you joined "The Church" yet?

 

[thetrailboss]

Yup, also said that Mount Snow will be the planned last Vail Resort in the East to close next season again (thank you mega Carinthia snow piles for that) and that they didn't reach day ticket sellout limits once last season.

"Just for you, buddy! You're welcome!"

 

[thetrailboss]

Opening day press release. No northeast ski areas mentioned. Vail sucks !

Mark Your Calendars: Vail Resorts Announces 2023/24 Winter Opening Date Plans at its Largest Resorts | Vail Resorts Corporate

news.vailresorts.com

"YOU WILL LIKE IT WHEN WE OPEN ON OUR TERMS, YOU UNGRATEFUL MOTHERFUCKER! NO EPIC FOR YOU, BUT YOU CANNOT STOP THE AUTO-RENEW!"

 

[BenedictGomez]

And the people that do buy day tickets probably puke when they see how expensive it is and never come back... Great marketing plan to grow the sport they have...

This has been my hypothesis for why EPIC & IKON artificially raising single day lift tickets will ultimately be harmful to the forward skier numbers for the sport. Hopefully I'm wrong, but it will take probably at least another decade to see if this is true or not.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Oh you are going to fit in REALLY well into the Wasatch Back! But have you joined "The Church" yet?

I actually have no problems with Mormons. My only annoyance is the fact I had to sell my beloved, full-size, drilled-and tapped refrigerator/freezer kegerator due to the fact that too much beer in one's home is obviously the path to eternal damnation.

 

[zyk]

I actually have no problems with Mormons. My only annoyance is the fact I had to sell my beloved, full-size, drilled-and tapped refrigerator/freezer kegerator due to the fact that too much beer in one's home is obviously the path to eternal damnation.

Ouch. Drinking off my keezer now. Wouldn't want to give that up... But damnation is also bad.

 

[machski]

This has been my hypothesis for why EPIC & IKON artificially raising single day lift tickets will ultimately be harmful to the forward skier numbers for the sport. Hopefully I'm wrong, but it will take probably at least another decade to see if this is true or not.

And actually Alterra's new CEO agrees with you that the huge day ticket cost for new entrants is not a sustainable business model. Will be interesting to see how he pivots things. May look more like a ULC airline.

 

[4aprice]

And actually Alterra's new CEO agrees with you that the huge day ticket cost for new entrants is not a sustainable business model. Will be interesting to see how he pivots things. May look more like a ULC airline.

In the case of Alterra, I love the pass, love the idea of skiing around, (its been great for travel) and have been an Ikon holder since it came out (Maxx before that), but I have always felt that these products could stand some tweaking. Some things I would like to see is basically a reservation system everywhere and reasonable capacity limits. I remember back in the late 70's to the mid 80's Loon used to limit tickets and I remember being shut out much like a major sporting event. I didn't feel slighted. They seem to have the reservation system down pat even to the point of a scolding email threating suspension if you forget to make one (as my BIL found out at Aspen). IMO it might help with some of the other problems, "Traffic and Parking", certainly pronounced in Utah and Colorado. I don't believe the need for planning is too much of an inconvenience for a better experience.

Son hit me with a little Colorado humor last year: "I-70, iconic traffic, and epic lift lines"

 

[urungus]

In the case of Alterra, I love the pass, love the idea of skiing around, (its been great for travel) and have been an Ikon holder since it came out (Maxx before that), but I have always felt that these products could stand some tweaking. Some things I would like to see is basically a reservation system everywhere and reasonable capacity limits. I remember back in the late 70's to the mid 80's Loon used to limit tickets and I remember being shut out much like a major sporting event. I didn't feel slighted. They seem to have the reservation system down pat even to the point of a scolding email threating suspension if you forget to make one (as my BIL found out at Aspen). IMO it might help with some of the other problems, "Traffic and Parking", certainly pronounced in Utah and Colorado. I don't believe the need for planning is too much of an inconvenience for a better experience.

IKON passholders are currently required to make a reservation at Loon and Windham (and several western ski areas) … I actually gut shut out of Loon a couple days last year despite having a full IKON pass.

 

[ss20]

I actually have no problems with Mormons.

Give it a few months... I cater weddings in the summer. The difference between LDS and non-LDS weddings is incredible. Non-LDS is what I'm used to- fun, loud, talks to us and all service staff, and relaxed. LDS they line up for food like it's an open-casket funeral. 50%ish of LDS wedding receptions do not have music. One of the most bizarre things I've seen is a lot of people come, wait in line to see the bride/groom, and then leave. I have seen 20+ people waiting in line to talk to the new couple. And then they just... leave. LDS do not tip in much of my experience either and they can nit-pick everything (but not as much as upper-class fly-ins who have their destination wedding in PC). Anyway, much of this is "different" and not "bad". The Wasatch back is pretty diverse at least. Snow still on the backside of the Timp!!

 

[BenedictGomez]

Alterra's new CEO agrees with you that the huge day ticket cost for new entrants is not a sustainable business model.

Really? Wow, I hadnt heard that, is there a source you can link from a podcast, interview or something? Refreshing to hear.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Some things I would like to see is basically a reservation system everywhere

This would be absolutely horrible for locals who just want to randomly pop over to the mountain & just ski for a few hours. Literally one of the things I'm most looking forward to.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Anyway, much of this is "different" and not "bad". The Wasatch back is pretty diverse at least. Snow still on the backside of the Timp!!

Exactly. I try to be as understanding of other religions as possible, our nation was founded on that principle (or at least was supposed to be, didnt always quite work out that way, especially for Catholics & Jews). Perhaps I'll eventually have a rude interaction with one of the "members", but it hasn't happened thus far. Admittedly, as you suggest that may have something to do with the fact I've probably spent 95% of my time in Utah on the Back. Our time on the Front will mostly be reserved for Costco, Trader Joe's, and Chick-Fil-A runs. lol

 

[machski]

Really? Wow, I hadnt heard that, is there a source you can link from a podcast, interview or something? Refreshing to hear.

Yup, his recent Storm Skiing Podcast episode. Give it a listen. He wouldn't bite on what tweaks he was considering to adjust the model to, but said he definitely has ideas they will explore in the not too distant future.

 

[4aprice]

This would be absolutely horrible for locals who just want to randomly pop over to the mountain & just ski for a few hours. Literally one of the things I'm most looking forward to.

I don't know BG. The reservations I've made were via the phone. I know I made a couple on the hour of arrival, pretty easy.

I see it as a capacity issue. Everyone complains about the crowds during the rushes (powder mornings, holiday periods etc). Reservations are just 1 method to get a handle on it..

There are other tweaks I think that could be made to help out locals as well. Ikon is already has a hand in the travel business according to the texts they send me. Maybe an a la carte menu of some sort. I don't have all the answers but still find the product useful.

 

[thetrailboss]

Yup, his recent Storm Skiing Podcast episode. Give it a listen. He wouldn't bite on what tweaks he was considering to adjust the model to, but said he definitely has ideas they will explore in the not too distant future.

My (admittedly cynical) take on what he said was that they are going to implement some of the pricing structures/tools from his time at LiveNation that people strongly dislike. When he discussed how "traditional" concert ticket prices "left money on the table" then a consumer should be concerned. He alluded to dynamic pricing. He mentioned experience add-ons and upgrades. I think the message is that cheap season passes are going to disappear and the focus is going to be on maximizing revenue from those who attend most frequently and are most passionate.

From a purely business standpoint, it makes sense. From a consumer standpoint, it is not going to be fun.

 

[thetrailboss]

IKON passholders are currently required to make a reservation at Loon and Windham (and several western ski areas) … I actually gut shut out of Loon a couple days last year despite having a full IKON pass.

BTW that is Boyne's decision, not Alterra. You probably knew that though.

 

[BenedictGomez]

I don't know BG. The reservations I've made were via the phone. I know I made a couple on the hour of arrival, pretty easy.

If a Season Pass holder cant ski any day he/she wants (as long as it's not on a pre-agreed blackout), then WTH is the point of a season pass?

 

[machski]

My (admittedly cynical) take on what he said was that they are going to implement some of the pricing structures/tools from his time at LiveNation that people strongly dislike. When he discussed how "traditional" concert ticket prices "left money on the table" then a consumer should be concerned. He alluded to dynamic pricing. He mentioned experience add-ons and upgrades. I think the message is that cheap season passes are going to disappear and the focus is going to be on maximizing revenue from those who attend most frequently and are most passionate.

From a purely business standpoint, it makes sense. From a consumer standpoint, it is not going to be fun.

I agree, but if Alterra goes too far and Vail doesn't follow or partner resorts jump off, that won't be good for Alterra either. So I don't think they can flip the switch overnight, they would need to phase in changes. With lift tickets anyway, they already use dynamic pricing across the industry. Powder midweek day tickets get very pricey the night before.