Smellytele
Well-known member
The meteorologists Kelly and Noyes were there before they were NBC and are different than the normal "weather casters". Especially Kelly. He gives first hand ski and surf reports.
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VAIL SUCKS
- Thread starter thebigo
- Start date
machski
Well-known member
Doesn't shock me, Brian Heon GM at the Cat left very quickly after Vail came to town. At the meet and greet fall fest at Sunday River, he told us he loved working for Peaks. But as soon as the Vail deal went through, he said he immediately decided to look around at what next possibilities. He said he was thrilled with the SR/Boyne deal when that came around. Hmmmmm......Appears to be another piece of the puzzle, Wildcat operations manager left in the fall. The more you dig, it appears anyone with experience or in a leadership role at wildcat and Attitash left in the fall. Wonder what vail did to piss them off so much? Their reward is coming in a couple months when any skier who is paying attention follows suit.
Sugarbush Resort Welcomes Patrick Konvicka As New VP Of Mountain Operations & Recreational Services
Sugarbush Resort Welcomes Patrick Konvicka As New VP Of Mountain Operations & Recreational Serviceswww.snowindustrynews.com
They caved last spring when named in a lawsuit and there was far less justification then, i'm sure something similar will play out this spring. They'll either give the money back voluntarily or be forced to
skiberg
Member
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- Sep 28, 2010
- Messages
- 588
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Disgraceful. Never buy Epic again. That’s the only way and make sure they know we are going to tell every skier we know what a scam Epic is.
drjeff
Well-known member
Appears to be another piece of the puzzle, Wildcat operations manager left in the fall. The more you dig, it appears anyone with experience or in a leadership role at wildcat and Attitash left in the fall. Wonder what vail did to piss them off so much? Their reward is coming in a couple months when any skier who is paying attention follows suit.
Sugarbush Resort Welcomes Patrick Konvicka As New VP Of Mountain Operations & Recreational Services
Sugarbush Resort Welcomes Patrick Konvicka As New VP Of Mountain Operations & Recreational Services
100% not downplaying the Cat/tash core skiers who have those 2 great mountains as their home base, however I wonder if say most of the folks who bought any EPIC for just those 2 mountains didn't buy an EPIC next season, does 1 think that the bean counters in CO would even notice that blip in pass sales?
I feel terrible for what it certainly appears is going on for the loyalist of those 2 great ski areas.
Edd
Well-known member
No I don’t think Vail is going to care. I’m fortunate to have access to a Veteran Epic pass which is cheap. I want to withhold $ from them next season for what’s happening but I’m thinking Wildcat supporters are a trivial number to them.
Wildcat deserves more respect than this. I’d like Vail to be more open about why more terrain isn’t open. People can accept honest bad news. Right now the vibe they’re putting out is that they don’t know that anything is abnormal like a Jedi mind trick.
Vail Resorts Reports Certain Ski Season Metrics for the Season-to-Date Period Ended January 3, 2021 | Vail Resorts, Inc.
The Investor Relations website contains information about Vail Resorts, Inc.'s business for stockholders, potential investors, and financial analysts.
investors.vailresorts.com
NYDB
Well-known member
^About what you would expect.
abc
Well-known member
But season pass sale was up!
The scare tactic worked.
The scare tactic worked.
dblskifanatic
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Don't get me wrong, but Vail did not buy Peaks for Wildcat or Attitash. They bought it for the NY/CT market share, I am sure everyone here knows that. They want skiers and snowboarders who hold local season passes in the Northeast to travel to their bigger western resorts. They will focus on Mount Snow and possibly Hunter before Wildcat and Attitash, Kind of sad!
Wildcat skier visits are around 60,000 and Attitash is around 120,000 compare to Mount Snow around 500,000. And Hunter has to be close if not more than Mount Snow. Could not find numbers for Hunter. Wildcat is also the smallest of the four.
Basically agree - losing wildcat business probably not that significant considering Vails focus below
Where did you find that chart? I'd be curious to see who the #3 "Brand Awareness" resort was.
NYDB
Well-known member
Gotta be Aspen. Or maybe the Resort formerly known as Squawlpine
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I hope not for Vail's sake as they don't own either of those resorts!
This maybe so, but there was a time not too long ago when Attitash was doing 200k a year and Wildcat 100k a year. Those aren't insignificant numbers and if managed properly, both could see those numbers if not better than those numbers again.
NYDB
Well-known member
Oh I thought that was an industry wide chart not vail specific. carry onI hope not for Vail's sake as they don't own either of those resorts!
abc
Well-known member
Yes, I think everyone knows that. That isn't a problem at all.
The problem is Vail appears to purposely starving Wildcat and Attitash to run it to the ground, from the perspective of the northern NH skiers.
I'm pretty sure Vail doesn't care about Wildcat. Not just due to its low skier visits but for the TYPE of skiers the Cat attracts. They're NOT the target audience of Vail. More over, where can they go when they're pissed with Vail? Cannon, yes. It's not quite the same though.
Attitash is a different matter. They ARE stereotypical Vail audience. But now, by running Attitash to the ground, they're driving them to Bretton Woods, Sunday River or even Cannon. Unlike Cat loyalists, they have a lot more options.
Actually, another big loser maybe North Conway. It's a perfect base for Wildcat and Attitash. But with both of them "barely open", North Conway becomes a ghost town.
Smellytele
Well-known member
I am actually going to North Conway for a week in February and don’t plan on skiing either Wildcat nor Attitash. Always have skied Wildcat a few times a year.
This year going to ski Black twice, abram and then do a high country day (skin up stickney then ride the t-bar for $31) @ Bretton woods. Also hitting Cannon on the way up and xcountry in Jackson a day or 2.
Why would Wildcat skiers not be the kind of skiers Vail wants? Lots of families go there many of whom have their kids in seasonal or race programs. That's big $$$
As an example, next season I'll have both kids in seasonal programs at Cannin at $900 a kid. I'll be buying one adult season pass at $900 (approximate early bird rate) one kids pass. Call it $500. So, that's $3200 spent at Cannon without a single beer or hot cocoa purchase. I'd rather be spending this money at Wildcat if they managed the place properly. My kids will be 6 and 3. Conservatively I'll average $4k a year spending at Cannon for the next fifteen years should we end up staying there. So, that's $60k in revenue Vail will lose from just one family of 3 moving on. Nevermind all the additional revenue they will receive from inviting casual skiing friends to join me who need to buy day tickets. That would be probably another $1k a year going to Cannon vs Vail. Add on I'm sure a western trip every other year or so when my kids are old enough to appreciate it and the overall loss to Vail would be well over $100k from one family. And if my kids follow in my footsteps as adults and they have their kids skiing elsewhere? Tack on even more.
IMO, I think I'm the exact type of customer Vail wants
thebigo
Well-known member
When was the last time you were in North Conway?
It is the opposite of a ghost town, it is slammed. The busiest I can remember in my 40 years and do not try to buy real estate, there is none. Anywhere in town, from the playground to the grocery store, the topic of where you live inevitably comes up and the standard response when I tell them: 'at least you live in NH'. If you plucked someone off a deserted island and dropped them downtown on new years eve, the only comment would have been: 'why is there a piece of cloth over peoples faces'? Big crowd crowd for fireworks, bars, restaurants, etc. We are not talking rusty subarus and pickups, we are talking women in high heels driving jaguar SUVs with over flowing carts at REI.
The WFH and home school crowd wanted out of the city this winter. North Conway is the one ski town in New England that is busier in the summer than winter; most people that grew up in the northeast visited north conway at some point as a child and many thought a great place to spend the winter.
Vail flushed a MASSIVE opportunity to hook these people for life down the shitter. The winner is going to be the WMSP mountains, three of which have approved expansions just waiting for funding.
I agree with you, DHS. We're talking similar money with Snowbird (in my situation) but they just don't get it I guess. Similar stupid corporate decisionmaking with POWDR and Vail I guess.
I think the intent of the original post was that Vail wants "the type" of skier who skis a few days a season locally and then goes out west to Vail's bigger resorts.
