I think vail is the best thing to happen to the ski industry, but that’s just me
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VAIL SUCKS
- Thread starter thebigo
- Start date
skiberg
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Like I said I don’t know Les Otten. May b a good guy. Certainly has balls, but all he did was create a bunch of soulless duplicative ski areas. He is not a skier. No skier would ever create that crap. That’s why I despise him.
abc
Well-known member
Seeing what Vail did in the northeast, if that's the best thing happen to ski industry, I should take up knitting.
You're wrong about that.... For 15-20 years he was skiing 4-5 days every week. He lived 100 yards from his office in South Ridge.
We had to "chaperone" his son BJ as a Jr Ski Patroller for 2-3 years...
Just because he wasn't your type of skier doesn't mean he wasn't a skier. There are some skiers that actually like wide straight simple trails (not me, but I do know others that do).
I certainly hope what's happened since Vail took over the northeast market isn't the new standard for the best thing to happen to the ski industry. Some of it can certainly be attributed to the pandemic but stuff like the piss poor communication is totally inexcusable
eatskisleep
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Pass me some of that kool-aid
xlr8r
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Overall I would says Les Otten was a mixed bag, with the good slightly outweighing the bad. No doubt New England skiing would be very different today without his influences. I would not complain too much about him changing terrain, as the only real terrain expansions that he built in New England are at Sunday River and Attitash, and he tried but was unsuccessful in changing Castlerock. Sunday River might have influenced other mountains to cut wide trails (cough Double Dipper), but that was done by other ownership, not him.
The Good:
Sunday River, While not perfect, overall he built the place from a local hill into one of the largest and best resorts in New England. There is something for everyone there, and rarely do I hear people hate on Sunday River. Again its not a perfect mountain, some trails I wish were cut differently but Sunday River would still be a local hill the likes of Black ME and Abrams if not for him.
Attitash, he similarly turned a small mountain into at one stage the largest by acreage resort in NH. IMO Bear Peak is the best pod of trails he designed. Attitash just was never finished before ASC went broke as the final piece was to be the Summit Express lift with additional trails cut from it. Attitash has since spent 20 years being ignored by its owners.
Sugarbush, Updating Gatehouse, Super Bravo lifts into HSQs and building Slidebrook express. replacing the poma on North Lynx with a triple
Killington, K1 Express, Needles Eye, Northbrook upgrades. Killington and Mount Snow got much needed lift upgrades that were lacking under S-K-I Ltd ownership
Mount Snow, Canyon and Nitro HSQs
Cranmore, Skimobile Express
Cheap multi mountain season passes
Introduced shaped skis before anyone else into rentals and ski schools
Built dedication ski school adventure centers at most of the resorts
Mixed
Grand Summit Hotels, these worked at some resorts more than others but ultimately building about 7 of them at the same time across New England and out west caused ASC's financial downfall.
Killington Ramshead Express, created a nice family area with a good fast lift but lost the summit of Ramshead. Truncating Sunrise, I never got to ski it, but to me it seems building that terrain was a mistake from the start.
Bad
Sugarbush, rearranging lifts at mount Ellen and trying to modernize Castlerock.
Expanding his empire too quick and building too much at once leading ASC into financial ruin. He never should have bought out S-K-I ltd.
The Good:
Sunday River, While not perfect, overall he built the place from a local hill into one of the largest and best resorts in New England. There is something for everyone there, and rarely do I hear people hate on Sunday River. Again its not a perfect mountain, some trails I wish were cut differently but Sunday River would still be a local hill the likes of Black ME and Abrams if not for him.
Attitash, he similarly turned a small mountain into at one stage the largest by acreage resort in NH. IMO Bear Peak is the best pod of trails he designed. Attitash just was never finished before ASC went broke as the final piece was to be the Summit Express lift with additional trails cut from it. Attitash has since spent 20 years being ignored by its owners.
Sugarbush, Updating Gatehouse, Super Bravo lifts into HSQs and building Slidebrook express. replacing the poma on North Lynx with a triple
Killington, K1 Express, Needles Eye, Northbrook upgrades. Killington and Mount Snow got much needed lift upgrades that were lacking under S-K-I Ltd ownership
Mount Snow, Canyon and Nitro HSQs
Cranmore, Skimobile Express
Cheap multi mountain season passes
Introduced shaped skis before anyone else into rentals and ski schools
Built dedication ski school adventure centers at most of the resorts
Mixed
Grand Summit Hotels, these worked at some resorts more than others but ultimately building about 7 of them at the same time across New England and out west caused ASC's financial downfall.
Killington Ramshead Express, created a nice family area with a good fast lift but lost the summit of Ramshead. Truncating Sunrise, I never got to ski it, but to me it seems building that terrain was a mistake from the start.
Bad
Sugarbush, rearranging lifts at mount Ellen and trying to modernize Castlerock.
Expanding his empire too quick and building too much at once leading ASC into financial ruin. He never should have bought out S-K-I ltd.
FBGM
Well-known member
Are you a Natzi?
Why? Serious question.
abc
Well-known member
The best thing Vail did is it concentrated the maddening crowd in Vail owned resorts.
That left the rest of us with less crowded mountains.
ss20
Well-known member
I know a guy who skis Okemo groomers every weekend Thanksgiving-early April. He does go off trail maybe 5ish days a year. There's people where this is their cup of tea.
abc
Well-known member
Majority of the population don't ski.
But we have ski resorts after all. Because there's enough of a niche market for the "non-majority".
I'm fine with SOME resorts are groomer focused. But I can see why the non-groomer skiers gets upset when their favorite mountain got groomed to death.
Yea...my brother would be perfectly content doing that. And I'm perfectly ok with there being areas that cater to that. A lot of those places get very good crowds and I'm more than happy those people ski there instead of all coming to the resorts I prefer.
abc
Well-known member
Precisely! That's one of the "best" part of Vail.
kingslug
Well-known member
Not a fan of groomers but this season..its mostly that..Hunter and Gore had some moguls..ill take what i get this year
thebigo
Well-known member
There are four types of lift served eastern skiing:
Park, woods, bumps, groomers
I am too old for the first, the second is my favorite but requires abundant natural snow. The third is runner up but requires some natural snow or abundant well managed man made snow. The fourth is a good consolation and a damn site better than working out in my basement.
Today was day #35 of the season. Something approaching 30 have been high speed groomers. Ride a high speed quad to the top and race my daughter to the bottom. Absent the high speed quads that lbo put in, we would not be rushing out for lunch runs. We would much rather be in Thompson but until somebody figures a way to make it snow 1'/week we will gladly race down illusion.
Park, woods, bumps, groomers
I am too old for the first, the second is my favorite but requires abundant natural snow. The third is runner up but requires some natural snow or abundant well managed man made snow. The fourth is a good consolation and a damn site better than working out in my basement.
Today was day #35 of the season. Something approaching 30 have been high speed groomers. Ride a high speed quad to the top and race my daughter to the bottom. Absent the high speed quads that lbo put in, we would not be rushing out for lunch runs. We would much rather be in Thompson but until somebody figures a way to make it snow 1'/week we will gladly race down illusion.
It is also only mid-January. There's plenty of time for the bumps, woods, and natural terrain to get up to speed. This weekend looks like a great push towards just that.
abc
Well-known member
I hope this changes soon.
I enjoy groomers once in a while, especially when it's quiet! I don't care to do groomers while dodging moving obstacles.
With the level of crowds this season, I'll pass.
