VAIL SUCKS

[BenedictGomez]

Mixed bag is my take:

1) The $2 raise was a given. Just via inflation alone it should have gone up $1.50ish. Vail couldn't care less.
2) The wage parity I think is written to make you think they got the perma inflationary increase they wanted, but I dont think they did; it sounds like they just get whatever some other Vail property's patrol can hold Vail hostage for assuming & only if it's higher than PCMR.
3) The "average" going up $4 means most PCMR patrollers will now make > $29 hour from $> $25, so that's a win.
4) It doesnt say what "most tenured" means, but I presume that means the dynamite chuckers will make > $40 now?
5) Sounds like they didnt get the turbo expensive healthcare asks they wanted, which was supposedly one of the most important demands
6) Gained access to parental leave is a win. How much so we dont know. Could they really have got 3 months paid on a 4 months gig? I'm skeptical.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Ski Utah, Alterra, and Vail have pretty much overpromoted the state.

Looks like the governor's trying to change that tonight.

 

[kbroderick]

Mixed bag is my take:

6) Gained access to parental leave is a win. How much so we dont know. Could they really have got 3 months paid on a 4 months gig? I'm skeptical.

If that's three mouths immediately following a birth or adoption (or immediately prior to and following, should someone not want to be running control routes 8 months pregnant), I doubt the worst-case scenario of "3 out of 4 months on leave" would happen very often. Yeah, you can try to time a birth seasonally, but I'm pretty sure the only time conception happens with 100% consistency is in health classes trying to scare teenagers.

I'd also not be at all surprised if at least some patrollers would prefer to not interrupt the winter season with a leave, but again, we're talking about biological processes that aren't completely consistent, and having to say "well, it didn't work out for a summer birth window this year, we'll try again next year" sounds freaking horrible if you've decided you're ready to have a kid.

 

[deadheadskier]

For sure. Took 18 months for our first. Took 18 seconds for the second.

 

[kingslug]

Now I wonder how this will affect other resorts.

 

[AdironRider]

I highly doubt they are getting all three months of their allowed FMLA leave paid. Probably more like a couple weeks with the rest unpaid. Given it cost them the gear allowance that would make sense dollars wise.

Also, that leave requires certain minimum hours worked requirements by law (1250 hours over the previous calendar year), so I wonder if that is really super applicable? Vail could go above and beyond that requirement but the devil is in the details.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Just realized looking at my number for inflation in the post above from last night it looked wonky. I entered the wrong data for calculating that.

Based on $21 starting wage and $25 average wage in January 2021, the PCMR ski patrol is actually making less money after this strike ($23 start, $29 average) than they were on the original contract on you add in CPI adjusters. Kind of surprising.

TLDR: Vail wins again

 

[Smellytele]

Just realized looking at my number for inflation in the post above from last night it looked wonky. I entered the wrong data for calculating that.

Based on $21 starting wage and $25 average wage in January 2021, the PCMR ski patrol is actually making less money after this strike ($23 start, $29 average) than they were on the original contract on you add in CPI adjusters. Kind of surprising.

TLDR: Vail wins again

No because vail never raised the pay rate with inflation so while it may be less than they were making in 2021 it is more than they were making in 2024.
More of a lose/ lose.

 

[thetrailboss]

Just realized looking at my number for inflation in the post above from last night it looked wonky. I entered the wrong data for calculating that.

Based on $21 starting wage and $25 average wage in January 2021, the PCMR ski patrol is actually making less money after this strike ($23 start, $29 average) than they were on the original contract on you add in CPI adjusters. Kind of surprising.

TLDR: Vail wins again

No because vail never raised the pay rate with inflation so while it may be less than they were making in 2021 it is more than they were making in 2024.
More of a lose/ lose.

As in Vegas, the house always wins.

 

[KustyTheKlown]

my fiance and i had a 'casino night' in our apt on 1/1. god bless new jersey.

we cast the live craps croupier on our big tv, and stood at our gambling table height kitchen island, and each played our own money using 2 laptops, on the same craps table, while drinking champagne. the dice get thrown by a robot arm and the money is computerized. the croupier just picks up the dice and puts them back in the robot. lol new jersey is fucking weird

we won a combined 725$

 

[Tin Woodsman]

For sure. Took 18 months for our first. Took 18 seconds for the second.

I feel seen

 

[Tin Woodsman]

Just realized looking at my number for inflation in the post above from last night it looked wonky. I entered the wrong data for calculating that.

Based on $21 starting wage and $25 average wage in January 2021, the PCMR ski patrol is actually making less money after this strike ($23 start, $29 average) than they were on the original contract on you add in CPI adjusters. Kind of surprising.

TLDR: Vail wins again

Raises are less than inflation rate? I had read here from experts that the greedy ski bum patrollers were asking for an outrageous amount and should be replaced? So confusing.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Raises are less than inflation rate? I had read here from experts that the greedy ski bum patrollers were asking for an outrageous amount and should be replaced? So confusing.

If you kept up with the conversation, the "raises" weren't the sticking point. And regardless of how bad inflation is or isn't, PCMR patrol makes a market rate, they're not slaver overlords you make them out to be.

When you get 3,000 applicants system wide for only 300 jobs, yeah, replacing isn't exactly some crazy stretch of a wild imagination.

 

[deadheadskier]

Applicants per open position is kind of a useless argument. We get dozens of applicants per open position. Very few have the requisite skills. Plus there's something to be said for having patrol members that know the terrain of a 7k acre resort. Fire and replace was not a viable option to maintain safety for the skiing public.

 

[AdironRider]

Yeah that might be the case for sales of specialized medical equipment, but it is 100% the opposite for ski patrol.

Every EMT, pre-med student, or even practicing doctor or surgeon is willing to do the work, often for free. It keeps their skills sharp, and they get hands on experience to a myriad of different rescue / triage scenarios, from cardiac events on down, not to mention they get the best benefits on of any on mountain position, pro forms and ski passes for the family, and all the rest.

I'm sure there are a few jabronis in the mix, but the candidate pool for ski patrol is large, and ultimately over qualified. It is why you absolutely never hear of a ski patrol shortage, unlike basically every other ski area position......

 

[eatskisleep]

 

[IceEidolon]

Yeah that might be the case for sales of specialized medical equipment, but it is 100% the opposite for ski patrol.

Every EMT, pre-med student, or even practicing doctor or surgeon is willing to do the work, often for free. It keeps their skills sharp, and they get hands on experience to a myriad of different rescue / triage scenarios, from cardiac events on down, not to mention they get the best benefits on of any on mountain position, pro forms and ski passes for the family, and all the rest.

I'm sure there are a few jabronis in the mix, but the candidate pool for ski patrol is large, and ultimately over qualified. It is why you absolutely never hear of a ski patrol shortage, unlike basically every other ski area position......

Categorically false. Patrol shortages and the aging of the patroller base are topics of concern. I'm aware of multiple areas that have put out calls for volunteer guests from other areas and a couple that have had to limit operations or stay closed when they couldn't get patrol coverage.

It's not as dire as, say, snowmaking staff but there's definitely not a line of EMTs and trauma surgeons beating down the door to work for free. Paid patrol members typically have a much wider scope than just responding to medical incidents, so the draw for doctors you suggest is lower.

 

[deadheadskier]

Yeah that might be the case for sales of specialized medical equipment, but it is 100% the opposite for ski patrol.

Every EMT, pre-med student, or even practicing doctor or surgeon is willing to do the work, often for free. It keeps their skills sharp, and they get hands on experience to a myriad of different rescue / triage scenarios, from cardiac events on down, not to mention they get the best benefits on of any on mountain position, pro forms and ski passes for the family, and all the rest.

I'm sure there are a few jabronis in the mix, but the candidate pool for ski patrol is large, and ultimately over qualified. It is why you absolutely never hear of a ski patrol shortage, unlike basically every other ski area position......

Yep, I'm sure hiring an almost entirely new force to learn the terrain and procedures of a 7k acre ski area on January 9th is a totally doable strategy. You're right.

My bad. Totally forget sometimes that I'm conversing with the two most brilliant minds in business, economics and resort operations between you and BG. Thank you for your limitless knowledge.

 

[kingslug]

Well..on a brighter note..The bombing went on for a while this morning..
A good amount of terrain at Tombstone opened.
I was in a clinic..so could only watch as hundreds of people fell down the powder under the lift.
Tomorrow...my turn..

 

[Former Sunday Rivah Rat]

Just realized looking at my number for inflation in the post above from last night it looked wonky. I entered the wrong data for calculating that.

Based on $21 starting wage and $25 average wage in January 2021, the PCMR ski patrol is actually making less money after this strike ($23 start, $29 average) than they were on the original contract on you add in CPI adjusters. Kind of surprising.

TLDR: Vail wins again

And the CPI is a hedonically adjusted, goalseeked joke that's not funny.