VAIL SUCKS

[Edd]

Yes, today. F U Vail.

So they somehow lost two trails. And right up the road BWs trail count is going sharply in the opposite direction, and their snowmaking ain't great.

 

[eatskisleep]

So they somehow lost two trails. And right up the road BWs trail count is going sharply in the opposite direction, and their snowmaking ain't great.

Yes how the F do you only have 5 trails open in Jan?! WTF!!

 

[snoseek]

Yes how the F do you only have 5 trails open in Jan?! WTF!!

Snow report says snowmaking is taking a break. Pond is dry. Pond is dry for 5 fucking trails?!

 

[millerm277]

i understand why they would want to do it. i dont really understand how most have the the time, unless they are in the backside of their careers and have earned the time. my peers in medicine do not have time to moonlight as ski patrollers. my best ski friend is a hospitalist in denver, 40 years old. his free time is too precious for a 'job'. that said, i do recall a period where his schedule was 10-on, 10-off, so i suppose a motivated 35 year old doctor COULD do that. he chose to ski for fun and have a family life instead lol

i do not see how any 25 year old med student has the time or financial cushion without indepndent wealth

Practically the entire ski patrol at Dartmouth for example is made up of medical students or practicing doctors and surgeons from DHMC, and they have a line out the door for limited spots. Most do it a couple days a week when they would be skiing anyway. The same applies to almost any other patrol, and out west, they get to throw bombs (those are mostly full timers that get to do that). I don't know many people who don't think that is freaking cool.

I understand this whole convo is basically a proxy fight over distribution of wealth, but at the end of the day, people need to realize that ski patrol is the most desirable position in the ski industry by a long margin. It isn't close. There is high demand for the limited slots. Like it or not, that is going to have an effect on what that position is paid. You aren't going to absolve basic principles of supply and demand because you don't like Vail.

I'm not sure you've got that right. Most of their patrol by membership (AFAIK) and according to their webpage, looks to be undergrad college students. Which makes much more sense in terms of available time than those actually in medical school do. They look to have a whole training program for them and they get trained over their first 2 years before serving as full ski patrollers - https://patrol.host.dartmouth.edu/training-process/

Not my field, but I believe this sort of thing also looks good for those who are looking to get into medical school/otherwise pursue things related to medicine (nursing, etc) after their undergrad. Which isn't to say those students are doing it for just for personal gain, of course.

Beyond this, I'll further note differences:

- Non-profit community area, that much of the local population has some kind of personal affiliation with vs....Vail.
- Most anyone involved there is likely going to live locally with a short drive that doesn't have to deal with serious traffic, travel expenses, etc. Driving 10-30min over to the ski area (or taking a college-provided bus of that length), is very different in terms of fitting it into your life vs "commuting" hours on a very delay-prone corridor. Someone in Denver wanting to do ski patrol out in Vail on a regular basis would be a much, much bigger challenge.

 

[deadheadskier]

Well yeah, having to staff 300 new employees in any role would be a challenge no doubt. That doesn't change that ski patrol is a desirable position.

In terms of Whaleback, they have several operational issues outside of patrol that preclude them from having really many staff at all and only continues to operate due to the generosity of one local benefactor. It certainly isn't due to a lack of patrol. More like their chairlift didn't pass inspection, or their complete and utter lack of snowmaking, or a lack of a functional groomer, or a myriad of other issues before you would need to staff a patrol that keep them from opening. I think they opened for two days so far this year. That isn't due to a lack of patrol.

All fair points, but I'm telling you 2-3 years ago I rode the chair with Patrol and operations were really limited that week. I forget the specifics, whether it was closing early that night or not opening a day that week. I recall it being NH vacation week. But it wasn't the lift or lack of snow. The patrol person specifically told me the reason was lack of ski patrol volunteers. Maybe it's changed, but that's what I was told by patrol.

 

[pinion]

Snow report says snowmaking is taking a break. Pond is dry. Pond is dry for 5 fucking trails?!

No excuses, but I believe they were blowing on Middle/Lower Polecat which can be exhausting for that system. Hoping it went well and they can push it out soon. Also Cheetah has snow, so that's an 8th trail though only for race training. Wildcat is quite sad currently.

 

[ctdubl07]

Re: ski patroler profile, I beleive its fair to consider East vs West (mega resort) in the equation. More of the East is a blend of Paid / Vol. weekend warrior mtn enthusiasts Vs "professional bums". That to me lends to more differing professional backgrounds.

Our resorts are not near population centers so they are more frequented by second home owners, Their lifestyle and work seem to allow them to drive 2-4 hours each Friday and seemingly the discretionary time to "to work" a second job where pay is secondary. I think the animal dynamic is different.

Frankly I believe it to be a good thing because if we had to rely on purely paid, I think both the culture and staffing of the East Coast resorts would suffer

I know plenty of NYC and CT Drs working/Vol in patrol as well as APRNs and RNs, from the Tri states and VT working.

Plus you have many in other professional services careers. I run a complex global company, am in my early 50's, have a big family and am highly compensated yet I am happy to earn $20 per hour on the weekends to be engaged in a sport I love and to help others with their experience as well. I think many of my teammates have a similar motivation or approach.

 

[BenedictGomez]

I understand this whole convo is basically a proxy fight over distribution of wealth, but at the end of the day, people need to realize that ski patrol is the most desirable position in the ski industry by a long margin. It isn't close. There is high demand for the limited slots.

Wow, you sure sound like, a 'PrO aRmCHaRE sKi PuHtROl DiretOUr".

Because everyone knows most jobs commonly have 1000% applicant coverage pools. Especially in the year 2025. Really easy to find employees these days.

 

[deadheadskier]

Fucking amazes me BG that you don't yet own your own

Ski area
Hedge fund
Life Sciences company
Environmental consulting firm
Real Estate development company

Really anything at all that you want to do. I'm not sure I've ever met anyone who is a self proclaimed expert on more subjects than you sir. We all are in awe and so lucky for your wisdom.

You're like the Donald Trump of skiing message board participants. The similarities of personality that you share with him are uncanny.

 

[jimmywilson69]

you guys should just hug it out...

 

[snoseek]

Ski off. Tomorrow. Lynx trail at wildcat.

 

[deadheadskier]

you guys should just hug it out...

I would, but I get the impression that he would find my hugging knowledge and technique inferior.

 

[AdironRider]

Ski off. Tomorrow. Lynx trail at wildcat.

Lynx would have to be open first!

I think Wildcat has issues that came before Vail, I have to say this is a pretty terrible effort on their end this year regardless.

 

[snoseek]

Lynx would have to be open first!

I think Wildcat has issues that came before Vail, I have to say this is a pretty terrible effort on their end this year regardless.

That was the joke...


Had they nit waited so late to start then things probably would have spaced out better. They play this game, some years they win and most they just lose. Peaks did infinitely better with getting stuff open

 

[BenedictGomez]

I mean, 2 of those things combined are literally what I've done a decent chunk of my career. lol

 

[Smellytele]

You'd probably be surprised at the number actively practicing physicians/surgeons/dentists/etc, let alone white collar professionals, who are involved in patrol, ski school, race team coaching, other ski area "jobs" and it rarely has anything to do with the $$ side as much as it is a chance to combine a bit of what professionally they do with a sport they love being a part of. Kind of a carryover from being in a profession where one of the core tennants is helping others

Hope if I am injured I get a physician or surgeon not a dentist.
Think a veterinarian would be more helpful.

 

[IceEidolon]

I will say that across four resorts in different states, over eleven years, I've never seen the patrol dynamic "we're turning down motivated and qualified individuals". I've never seen more than "adequate" coverage over the long term, and I've seen certain areas concerned about meeting their minimum requirements on hard to cover shifts/days at various points during the season.

Frankly if you had the level of volunteerism that's being suggested in this thread, we'd be in a much more comfortable place.

 

[Smellytele]

My son’s friend went to school at Leadville for ski patrol. He works at solitude. While not a full year job it is a half year job and he actually is a fly fishing guide in the warmer months.

 

[2Planker]

I will say that across four resorts in different states, over eleven years, I've never seen the patrol dynamic "we're turning down motivated and qualified individuals". I've never seen more than "adequate" coverage over the long term, and I've seen certain areas concerned about meeting their minimum requirements on hard to cover shifts/days at various points during the season.

Frankly if you had the level of volunteerism that's being suggested in this thread, we'd be in a much more comfortable place.

Hey come on…
Us volunteers are making a whopping $3/hr at best..
Pass price/ 25 days = about $30/day for a 10 hour day.

 

[BenedictGomez]

My son’s friend went to school at Leadville for ski patrol. He works at solitude. While not a full year job it is a half year job and he actually is a fly fishing guide in the warmer months.

Which partially explains why it's not tough finding people who want this kind of life. Sounds positively amazing so long as you're not the sort of person motivated financially. But its always been like that.

The irony is if this Union push gets going all over the place, and it becomes normal to make > $60,000 annualized for a ski patrol gig, it's going to get even less difficult to staff than it already is. Maybe it will be tougher to get a ski patrol job than getting into med school or veterinarian school!