VAIL SUCKS

[2Planker]

No one here has ever insinuated that Wildcat is more like a Stowe than a Magic. Sweet hyperbole

They also made vastly more snow under Peak, ran a month longer season and did turn a profit.

Care to try again with facts vs just your own uneducated guesses?

Let's not forget that Vail turned down a sizeable 7 figure offer from some locals in 2021

 

[deadheadskier]

Its called consulting dipshit, and consultants work for more than just one company over time usually. Thats as far as I'm going to go.

We get it, you demand unrealistic needs be met to earn your dollars. Thats why Vail doesn't give a shit about you. You can continue to be pissed off about it or be realistic, but something tells me you won't

Look moron, do you have anything factual to share?

You lied about Peak making the same amount of snow as Vail. That's factually incorrect and there are MANY witnesses here that will agree with me and zero people who will agree with you....you,who probably hasn't stepped foot on the property in 25 years.

You were wrong about the place losing money under Peak. I know this directly from the prior administration and the former head data miner for Vail resorts who had access to Peak data and who was in charge of breaking down the numbers for all of their properties.

No one is asking for God damn Shangri La at Wildcat. Just a return to how it was during Peal's final 5 years.

Reality is that even if that does happen, I'm likely not going to return to being a regular there again anyway. I'm content with Gunstock plus Indy. Now if Vail sells it to an independent operator? Maybe I'll think differently.

 

[AdironRider]

Look moron, do you have anything factual to share?

You lied about Peak making the same amount of snow as Vail. That's factually incorrect and there are MANY witnesses here that will agree with me and zero people who will agree with you....you,who probably hasn't stepped foot on the property in 25 years.

You were wrong about the place losing money under Peak. I know this directly from the prior administration and the former head data miner for Vail resorts who had access to Peak data and who was in charge of breaking down the numbers for all of their properties.

No one is asking for God damn Shangri La at Wildcat. Just a return to how it was during Peal's final 5 years.

Reality is that even if that does happen, I'm likely not going to return to being a regular there again anyway. I'm content with Gunstock plus Indy. Now if Vail sells it to an independent operator? Maybe I'll think differently.

I never said Vail ran Wildcat exactly the same, I said they inherited infrastructure challenges and weren't morons throwing good money after bad. Speaking of Peak's final five years, where visitation dropped from over 100k to 50k skier visits there last year? Right, tell me how awesome it was that they hemorrhaged visits.

PS you are saying the lead analyst for a publicly traded company is just throwing out proprietary info to some medical device salesman? He must be a pretty good friend compared to you to be breaking the law and then you brag about it online. Or the reality is you are just making it up.

At the end of the day, you are expecting Vail to lose money or else you won't spend money there, oh and probably never will. And you wonder why they don't change. This is the story of this entire thread. Washed up old dudes demanding unrealistic performance or "they will take their money elsewhere". They are saying good riddance and you are to obtuse to figure that out.

 

[jimmywilson69]

Damn Bros...

 

[deadheadskier]

I never said Vail ran Wildcat exactly the same, I said they inherited infrastructure challenges and weren't morons throwing good money after bad. Speaking of Peak's final five years, where visitation dropped from over 100k to 50k skier visits there last year? Right, tell me how awesome it was that they hemorrhaged visits.

PS you are saying the lead analyst for a publicly traded company is just throwing out proprietary info to some medical device salesman? He must be a pretty good friend compared to you to be breaking the law and then you brag about it online. Or the reality is you are just making it up.

At the end of the day, you are expecting Vail to lose money or else you won't spend money there, oh and probably never will. And you wonder why they don't change. This is the story of this entire thread. Washed up old dudes demanding unrealistic performance or "they will take their money elsewhere". They are saying good riddance and you are to obtuse to figure that out.

Yeah, I'm sure the former data miner is sweating in his boots that he revealed in private to a friend that a business unit was turning a profit.

Where you getting your information Mr Kevin O'Leary wannabe? Why are you lying about skier visits the final five years of Peak? That's not published information.

Not sure why you bother participating in Wildcat discussions at all. You have proven here that you know nothing about the place, you haven't skied there in decades and probably barely went prior to that. What's your motivation chief?

 

[LuckyStrike]

Damn Bros...

 

[BenedictGomez]

you are saying the lead analyst for a publicly traded company is just throwing out proprietary info to some medical device salesman?

Meh, I wouldn't be so sure. I've literally had to tell a few lead analysts to stop telling me crap because I work on the trade floor (which they knew). People can be weird.

 

[doublediamond]

Peak broke the bad snowmaking system. Peak fixed the system. Peak then was aggressive and opened earlier with a 2100 vertical feet route T2B than other areas in the state even contemplated
opening.

Vail came in and broke it again and it's been a shell of itself ever since.

 

[eatskisleep]

Wait? People really think Wildcat was
Just as bad under Peak or even the previous management pre peak versus Vail? That must be an April Fools joke… ask ANYONE who worked at both. Ask anyone who WAS a pass holder before (I was for over a decade) how it compares to now. You simply can’t compare.

 

[Mainer]

Here’s the last ten years of wildcat closing dates. Last year was April 24. This year is going to be April 6th. Clearly they did better the last 5 of peak. Last year the gm of wc had started to figure it out, then he quit. This year wc is worse than the Covid years and way worse than under peak. They need a gm that gives a shit, not a shared one with attitash that doesn’t. Vail has ruined that place

 

[snoseek]

The facebook comments on their closing announcement are scathing. Like I get second hand embarrassment out of them.

 

[deadheadskier]

I love their attempts at defending the situation. "Sorry folks, mountain's closed. We made lots of snow, but mother nature had other plans."

 

[AdironRider]

Peak broke the bad snowmaking system. Peak fixed the system. Peak then was aggressive and opened earlier with a 2100 vertical feet route T2B than other areas in the state even contemplated
opening.

Vail came in and broke it again and it's been a shell of itself ever since.

And Peak unequivocally made a poor business decision doing so. Would it be great for the six people that show up on a Tuesday in late April, sure, but that wasn't paying off for Peak, which saw visits halve over the last five years of their ownership, let alone wasn't justifiable in the first place. (Those numbers come from SkiNH - and yes I'm ballparking for brevity sake here). Nevermind Peak bought Wildcat for relative pennies because it had infrastructure and business model problems, and their stock price also was in the shitter because they ran mountains poorly and had bad debt to do so without recognizing those problems.

I'm not arguing that Peak didn't keep Wildcat open longer, but that it was an unsustainable business decision due to a myriad of factors. But ultimately a mountain that can't crack 100k skier visits has no business staying open for six months, and staying open for another month in late April is not going to drive business (proven previously). This is my entire gripe with this thread. Six old guys on AZ who can't let go of a business model that failed long ago (and let to hundreds of mountains closing over the past generation for not adapting to a more predictable revenue / expense model).

You can all have the self serving opinion that Vail should keep Wildcat open longer, but the business case is not there, full stop. The head in the sand vibe of this whole thread that these are businesses and not yours alone is beyond ridiculous.

 

[LoafSkier19]

I think it’s pretty funny they blame it on lack of snow yet their predominantly south facing and much lower elevation neighbor down the road has no plans to quit yet

 

[AdironRider]

And is also losing money as a marketing exercise for Indy.......

 

[snoseek]

And Peak unequivocally made a poor business decision doing so. Would it be great for the six people that show up on a Tuesday in late April, sure, but that wasn't paying off for Peak, which saw visits halve over the last five years of their ownership, let alone wasn't justifiable in the first place. (Those numbers come from SkiNH - and yes I'm ballparking for brevity sake here). Nevermind Peak bought Wildcat for relative pennies because it had infrastructure and business model problems, and their stock price also was in the shitter because they ran mountains poorly and had bad debt to do so without recognizing those problems.

I'm not arguing that Peak didn't keep Wildcat open longer, but that it was an unsustainable business decision due to a myriad of factors. But ultimately a mountain that can't crack 100k skier visits has no business staying open for six months, and staying open for another month in late April is not going to drive business (proven previously). This is my entire gripe with this thread. Six old guys on AZ who can't let go of a business model that failed long ago (and let to hundreds of mountains closing over the past generation for not adapting to a more predictable revenue / expense model).

You can all have the self serving opinion that Vail should keep Wildcat open longer, but the business case is not there, full stop. The head in the sand vibe of this whole thread that these are businesses and not yours alone is beyond ridiculous.

It's way more than just 6 old dudes. It's literally everyone that called that place home for decades. They have always been popular in spring. Their core audience has moved on at this point.

So your solution to shit infrastructure is to let the place rot? Might as well hang it up and close it down right?

 

[AdironRider]

There weren't that many people to begin with champ, that's the point. It wasn't working before.

The solution is for the mountain to be run properly, and for their market, size, and capability, is much more like a mid tier that opens in mid-December and closes late March early April weather depending. Then once they get the day to day operations right, and for Vail that means shared resources between another mountain literally down the street, they can start rebuilding the entire mountain. That is going to take a long time whether you like it or not.

 

[machski]

And is also losing money as a marketing exercise for Indy.......

Really, you sure? They were on pace to Triple their previous revenue highs this season. Now I get that doesn't equate to profitability necessarily. But given the state of the place the last several seasons, I think they had to really push things this year to regain market traction moving forward.

 

[snoseek]

Late march lol? Yeah you clearly don't know shit about that mtn other than plugging numbers and it shows.

You would think just with being tied to the largest ski pass in the world the skier visits would jump but that's not the case because the core base left.

 

[Mainer]

Wildcat has been piss poor all year. The 3 groomers have been a sheet of ice with rocks poking through. They couldn’t even run the lift to the top for a week in March due to not making any snow this year. I’ve been skiing there a long time, it’s by far the worst it’s ever been.
No one is saying to invest a bunch of money into the place. But at least blow enough snow where you can constantly groom on a couple trails. They haven’t been able to do that this year.
Since they bought the place it’s been in a downward spiral. They pay 2 1/2 times minimum wage in nh and can’t retain staff. The fired their experienced help during Covid because they wouldn’t take the shot. The gm jd was starting to make it work last year with limited resources and quit because vail sucks to work for.
If you had skied there anytime this year you would understand how bad it is. Wildcat was always packed weekends in the spring. With their elevation they should be able to open weekends through April. Vail does suck