Want to Ski Alta This Season?

[Smellytele]

I've been looking at moving to Utah forever. The pay cut is extreme though..something like 70 to 80%..yes..that much. My wife would take a similar cut. Unless we really scored a rare job and we have looked.

Supply and demand. Your employment of choice must have a lot of candidates in SLC and/or you are over paid for the job you do.

 

[BenedictGomez]

I've been looking at moving to Utah forever. The pay cut is extreme though..something like 70 to 80%..yes..that much. My wife would take a similar cut. Unless we really scored a rare job and we have looked.

How is that even possible? Highly skeptical. Utah wages are lower than New Jersey & New York, but Utah isnt Bangladesh for heaven's sake.

EDIT: Are you by any chance in a union?

 

[thetrailboss]

Meh, that only worked because they're comparing it to NYC homes, which are among the most expensive on Planet Earth. Same could be said if you used San Francisco or some other crazy high real estate area as your comp, but the reality is, homes are actually very expensive in the Wasatch area on a relative basis for the average American, especially given the incomes are less. Frankly, I think Utah is in a housing bubble right now, which is likely only sustainable if more people from CA keep moving in after cashing out their high-priced CA homes! lol

Utah is indeed in a housing bubble.

 

[thetrailboss]

What I think will be interesting is Utah a flee-to state or a flee-from state in our post-pandemic world? Work-from-home is going to continue and people are going to keep moving to the suburbs and rural areas. Is SLC/Sandy "too big" and people go to the new, less dense communities around SLC/Sandy...or do they go totally off the reservation and go t the other boomtowns south and east of Park City? Or do they just pile into the new developments in the SLC area 20 minutes from the city center?

Most are moving to Park City and that area. The Wasatch Back is also growing really, really fast.

 

[kingslug]

yes and my wife is a VP..so I doubt we will make mid 6 figures combined or anywhere near it. I'm at the top of the game in the union..not happening in Utah..

 

[kingslug]

And as usual she doesn't want to leave her family and everyone she knows and have money to travel all over the world.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Most are moving to Park City and that area. The Wasatch Back is also growing really, really fast.

Both the front & the back are growing really, really, fast. Drive around Lehi & points south next time you're in Utah. It looks like a tower-crane farm. Northern SLC suburbs are growing quick too.

As for the Wasatch Back, yes, it seems farmers & ranchers cant sell fast enough, and in their place houses are going up. Closer to Park City in places like Hideout it's townhouses & condos. I actually find it really sad, because without any protective zoning I'm beginning to wonder how much "Back" will be back there in 20 years. They could really use a model farmland preservation program.

In terms of the economics on homes, when I look at Utah wages I struggle to understand how the typical family can afford the $500,000 to $800,000 homes, let alone the seemingly booming $1M+ cohort. And if you go on Redfin or Zillow, the $500,000 homes are not what I'd call impressive. IMO, something's gotta' give.

 

[abc]

Meh, that only worked because they're comparing it to NYC homes, which are among the most expensive on Planet Earth. Same could be said if you used San Francisco or some other crazy high real estate area as your comp, but the reality is, homes are actually very expensive in the Wasatch area on a relative basis for the average American, especially given the incomes are less. Frankly, I think Utah is in a housing bubble right now, which is likely only sustainable if more people from CA keep moving in after cashing out their high-priced CA homes! lol

Except they're also comparing their salary with NYC. Utah come up to to approximately 75% of NYC, , which is the "most expensive on Planet Earth" as well!

75% of NYC salary can buy a whole lot of house in Utah!

 

[BenedictGomez]

yes and my wife is a VP..so I doubt we will make mid 6 figures combined or anywhere near it. I'm at the top of the game in the union..not happening in Utah..

Well, you probably know my opinion on Union salaries, which is how I guessed given your odd financial statement, but then you're destined to live your life right where you are, because Union salaries are not economically rational & we're now at a tipping point whereby even those pushing the Union salaries pretty much know the gig is up (no pun intended). My state is going to go bankrupt for sure due to unsustainable finances with literally billions (NOT a typo) of completely unfunded Union obligations. My wife quit her Union 2 years ago (Thank you SCOTUS!), which is only exacerbating the "problem".

 

[kingslug]

Depends on the industry.

 

[BenedictGomez]

75% of NYC salary can buy a whole lot of house in Utah!

Depends where, and I'm gathering not as much as you think, unless you want to live in one of the less "hot" areas. West SLC suburbs, south SLC suburbs, north suburbs, etc...? Sure, that's correct. But even a 1970s Brady Bunch ranch someplace like Cottonwood Heights or Holladay probably goes for $550,000 & up, and that is a trade DOWN from the homes in the NYC suburbs.

And a really nice house on the Wasatch Back? Not so much. You're looking at $650,000 to $1M, which is about the same as where I live in a NYC suburb. And sure as hell not in Park City. Even crappy homes (and I mean crappy) on the outskirts of Park City go for $650,000, and they're likely not homes you'd want to buy. Fixer-upper (or worse) stuff. Utah prices have increased dramatically in the last few years. It's not financially sustainable versus the salaries there IMO, but like I said, the ex-factor that confuses me is how many rich people and or people "fleeing" California are moving there to absorb this hit.

 

[abc]

when I look at Utah wages I struggle to understand how the typical family can afford the $500,000 to $800,000 homes, let alone the seemingly booming $1M+ cohort.

Simple.

The WFH crowd bring their big city salaries to Utah! (plus the proceed from the sale of their east coast home too)

Every couple years, I go ski Park City and hang out with my buddy from way back east. They moved out there when PC was still The Canyons. They brought with them a 2-income family with east coast income levels. So yep, they're in one of them 1M+ houses in Park City.

The couple who relocated last year have a combined income in the low 6 figures. No trouble affording any decent house their heart's desire.

What you think of "typical family" doesn't quite reflect the new comers.

 

[BenedictGomez]

The couple who relocated last year have a combined income in the low 6 figures. No trouble affording any decent house their heart's desire.

What you think of "typical family" doesn't quite reflect the new comers.

To me, combined "low 6 figures" isnt that much money when I look at the pricing of the homes in the area. Especially not the Park City area you're specifically referencing, and certainly not "any decent home of their heart's desire", unless they want to be house poor. The "decent" homes in Park City start at $800,000. I think your knowledge of Utah home prices is dated, as the prices have really EXPLODED the last few years, literally doubling (or more) in some areas.

 

[abc]

Especially not the Park City area you're specifically referencing

I "specifically referenced" it for the couple who moved there a few years back

Not everyone even wants to live in the Park City area. The drive into SLC in winter was terrible. The newly relocated couple I "referenced" work and live in south suburb of SLC, aka "tower crane farm" in your words. Yes, "any house their heart desired" in that area at low 6 figure income!!!

You're only reading what confirming your believe, not what was written.

 

[BenedictGomez]

The newly relocated couple I "referenced" work and live in south suburb of SLC, aka "tower crane farm" in your words. Yes, "any house their heart desired" in that area at low 6 figure income!!!

You're only reading what confirming your believe, not what was written.

Ironic statement on your part given I literally stated that homes in the south suburb of SLC are cheaper, and that's it's not a "hot" area where people moving there generally want to live (SEE: Post #91). That's what "was written". If you really can afford to live anywhere in the area so easily, my guess is most new Utah arrivals are not choosing to live in a south SLC suburb.

And that Lehi'ish area, which is roughly what you're describing is mostly smaller homes stacked like cordwood on top of each up going up quickly, and I'm guessing likely not of the greatest construction. You can have that if you like, but the people from "NYC suburbs" you previously mentioned would likely be in a huge home "downgrade" to live in one of those. The NYC suburbs are quite wealthy, and are mostly pretty nice homes.

 

[jimk]

Depends where, and I'm gathering not as much as you think, unless you want to live in one of the less "hot" areas. West SLC suburbs, south SLC suburbs, north suburbs, etc...? Sure, that's correct. But even a 1970s Brady Bunch ranch someplace like Cottonwood Heights or Holladay probably goes for $550,000 & up, and that is a trade DOWN from the homes in the NYC suburbs.

And a really nice house on the Wasatch Back? Not so much. You're looking at $650,000 to $1M, which is about the same as where I live in a NYC suburb. And sure as hell not in Park City. Even crappy homes (and I mean crappy) on the outskirts of Park City go for $650,000, and they're likely not homes you'd want to buy. Fixer-upper (or worse) stuff. Utah prices have increased dramatically in the last few years. It's not financially sustainable versus the salaries there IMO, but like I said, the ex-factor that confuses me is how many rich people and or people "fleeing" California are moving there to absorb this hit.

@thetrailboss would know the housing market better than me. The market is hot out there, but the hotness is quite targeted to the most desirable foothill or mountain locations. In the SL valley it's crazy how prices can change/drop practically every block the further you move west away from the mtns. My son lives in one of those Brady Bunch houses you speak of. When he moved to SLC in 2015 it probably valued at 250k, when he bought it in 2017 it was about 315. Now it's valued around 450. I have toyed with the idea of permanently relocating out there, but while I procrastinate my house back east is appreciating at similar rate.

PS: a valley local gave me some interesting food for thought last year about living in the SL Valley vs. the back Wasatch. If you have other things in life than just skiing (eg golf, biking, gardening, hiking), the warmer spring-summer-falls in the valley are more enjoyable than the shorter summers in the back Wasatch/Park City.

 

[kingslug]

Plus its nice if you can afford a neighborhood high enough to beat the smog.

 

[abc]

Lehi'ish area, which is roughly what you're describing is mostly smaller homes stacked like cordwood on top of each up going up quickly, and I'm guessing likely not of the greatest construction. You can have that if you like, but the people from "NYC suburbs" you previously mentioned would likely be in a huge home "downgrade" to live in one of those. The NYC suburbs are quite wealthy, and are mostly pretty nice homes.

You're putting your own value system onto others.

The couple I "referenced" were Millennials. They EMBRACE the "smaller homes stacked like cordwood on top of each"!!!

In fact, the couple who ended up in Park City (no, not the "Wasatch back") also dislike the 6 bedroom "typical Utah" houses! Majority SLC houses are way big because Mormons have big families. The transplants by and large hate the wasted space!!!

I live in Westchester. Your "NYC suburb"! The housing stock here varies considerably when you move from village to village. Often time within the village, there're very many different type of housing stock. I know first hand it's not what you describe!

Your reference point is seriously flawed.