Smellytele
Well-known member
No it was rich
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Whaleback Mountain to cease operations
- Thread starter Nick
- Start date
No it was rich
Newpylong
Well-known member
lol. Can tell it's summer.
Edd
Well-known member
Are you sure? Sounded more like a political remark.
dlague
Active member
Political humor
Yeah, I took it as sarcasm as well.
But there is a sad reality with the comment in that the well-to-do Dartmouth Students and folks in Hanover do not ski at Whaleback because it is not their thing. Hell, a lot of Dartmouth kids don't even ski at the Skiway and go elsewhere. The harsh reality is that there are different ski areas for different demographic groups and the common man's area, which we all love and need more of, really struggle.
But there is a sad reality with the comment in that the well-to-do Dartmouth Students and folks in Hanover do not ski at Whaleback because it is not their thing. Hell, a lot of Dartmouth kids don't even ski at the Skiway and go elsewhere. The harsh reality is that there are different ski areas for different demographic groups and the common man's area, which we all love and need more of, really struggle.
dlague
Active member
I agree! In fact, we often migrate to some of those mountains since they are less crowded. Don't get me wrong we so like hitting up some of the big boys too.
Smellytele
Well-known member
Variety is the spice of life.
buellski
New member
I don't know how true this is, but I can't really refute it with hard facts. However, I do know that Ford Sayre Ski Club in Hanover used Whaleback pretty extensively for race training. I also know that Dartmouth and Hanover always had a pretty big contingent in the Thursday Night Race League. I don't know for a fact, but I would bet there were kids on the Core team that were from Hanover. I don't really think having more people from Hanover make use of the area would have made much of a difference.
The bottom line is we had a great community resource that many of the towns (Grantham, Enfield, Lebanon, Plainfield, Hartford/WRJ), besides Hanover, made use of for after school programs, winter camps, and race leagues. Both of my kids did after school programs and winter camps there. My son did BMX and skateboard camps with them in the summer. I did the TNRL in the past and got to watch a bunch of kids from our town learn how to ski and ride. I just hope we can get it back.
Newpylong
Well-known member
My wife's side is from Enfield and this past weekend we were talking about ways to remain viable. My sister in law was adamant that they needed stronger year round activities. I am wondering what type of crowd they would get if they replaced the chairs or welded hooks on them for mountain bikes? How about disc golf?
She also said the bar should be a year round restaurant.
Is she on to something with any of these?
I only looked at it from an operational perspective, and every time I drove by and the times I went the last few seasons, only a fraction of the snowmaking was used. I suspect this was due to budgetary reasons more than technical.
She also said the bar should be a year round restaurant.
Is she on to something with any of these?
I only looked at it from an operational perspective, and every time I drove by and the times I went the last few seasons, only a fraction of the snowmaking was used. I suspect this was due to budgetary reasons more than technical.
Well, they were going to do paintball and open up a skate park. They began to do the work themselves but the financing fell through and they had a half-built area to looker's left of the lodge as you drove by on 89.
I thought that the bar was open year round? It was their big revenue source to be honest.
And mountain biking is a good idea.
Define "big"
The highest grossing restaurant in Stowe does about $2.5M in sales a year. I'd be surprised if a bar at Whaleback does 10% of that total. So, say they run it perfect and get a 25% net profit out of there. That's 25 grand a year; not exactly a big revenue to stream to apply towards the other high operation costs of a ski area.
With Whaleback's location, I think they'd be nuts to run a year round full service restaurant.
Savemeasammy
New member
I grew up skiing at Whaleback, and, although I don't ski there often anymore, it would sadden me to see it close down once again. I have friends who use it as their home mountain, and I'm sure their children will be heartbroken if it doesn't reopen. IMO, Whaleback has been missing the mark as far as their target audience is concerned. With it's meager vertical drop and small size, their real focus should be on families. Pats Peak - the mountain closest to me, and the one I use (with my family!) - targets this segment, and they kill it. They have a nice variety of wide, easy trails for beginners, along with some more interesting terrain for more advanced skiers. They also make a ton of snow. These are two areas where Whaleback falls short. Their beginner terrain is pretty narrow - which is not ideal when you pack a bunch of snow-plowing children on it! I think they need to widen the existing beginner terrain, and perhaps beef up the snowmaking. The mountain already offers reasonable terrain for intermediates and advanced skiers, which could also benefit from better snowmaking. Also, as others have mentioned, the ramp at the top of the chair is too steep for beginners.
xwhaler
Active member
IMHO here are the top 3 things Whaleback needs to do from an advertising perspective to possibly succeed going forward:
1) Get more of the front face of the mtn covered ASAP. Their location right off 89 is pretty unique, I've always enjoyed rounding that bend in the highway and seeing the hill. I'm sure its intriguing for a lot of folks driving by as they wonder what the terrain is like. However when there is 1 route covered and the rest of the mtn is brown (before say the New Year) it makes folks think they don;t have their act together. I think an emphasis on snowmaking the Face and Spout and 1 green trail right away would be key. Give folks a reason to give it a try.
2) Emphasis on family programs---the park thing was an okay idea but there is no halfpipe and no dedicated lift for their park so it's going to be under utilized. Make it super family friendly/affordable and I think you can get some traction. One key here would be to try some afternoon/night activities on the wknds. I was always surprised they didn't offer night skiing on the wknd nights. Light the trails at night so Mom/Dad can make some turns alternating between watching the kids---maybe some a family dinner/kids activities/drink specials/ski ticket combo every Sat night. Try and make Whaleback a weekly destination/safe/fun/affordable night out with the family.
3) Lots of folks have commented that their beginner terrain needs to be widened and I don;t necessarily disagree. I do think the ramp at the top can be intimidating so if they blasted snow up there to make it more gradual that would probably help. What I think they should do though is advertise a bit more of their advanced/expert terrain. The terrain is pretty good (Jawbone, YOOYM, Face, Blowhole) so if you could somehow make that more well known perhaps you get more of the dads who want to take their kids there knowing they will have fun as well. Or the solo skier powder hound looking for an off the radar place for fresh lines. I'm not sure how this could really be accomplished but I do think Whaleback has better terrain than what meets the eye from I-89 or what the general perception of a community hill.
1) Get more of the front face of the mtn covered ASAP. Their location right off 89 is pretty unique, I've always enjoyed rounding that bend in the highway and seeing the hill. I'm sure its intriguing for a lot of folks driving by as they wonder what the terrain is like. However when there is 1 route covered and the rest of the mtn is brown (before say the New Year) it makes folks think they don;t have their act together. I think an emphasis on snowmaking the Face and Spout and 1 green trail right away would be key. Give folks a reason to give it a try.
2) Emphasis on family programs---the park thing was an okay idea but there is no halfpipe and no dedicated lift for their park so it's going to be under utilized. Make it super family friendly/affordable and I think you can get some traction. One key here would be to try some afternoon/night activities on the wknds. I was always surprised they didn't offer night skiing on the wknd nights. Light the trails at night so Mom/Dad can make some turns alternating between watching the kids---maybe some a family dinner/kids activities/drink specials/ski ticket combo every Sat night. Try and make Whaleback a weekly destination/safe/fun/affordable night out with the family.
3) Lots of folks have commented that their beginner terrain needs to be widened and I don;t necessarily disagree. I do think the ramp at the top can be intimidating so if they blasted snow up there to make it more gradual that would probably help. What I think they should do though is advertise a bit more of their advanced/expert terrain. The terrain is pretty good (Jawbone, YOOYM, Face, Blowhole) so if you could somehow make that more well known perhaps you get more of the dads who want to take their kids there knowing they will have fun as well. Or the solo skier powder hound looking for an off the radar place for fresh lines. I'm not sure how this could really be accomplished but I do think Whaleback has better terrain than what meets the eye from I-89 or what the general perception of a community hill.
dlague
Active member
The nice to have for pats peak is it can draw from a large base from concord, Manchester, Bedford and a bunch of other towns. McIntyre does pretty well too! Whaleback should get creative with programs, beef up the lodge, and yes better snowmaking! They should also partner with larger resorts with season pass programs like pats did with jay peak.
xwhaler
Active member
I know it's tricky sometimes to appropriately share the revenue but I wonder if Whaleback could offer a joint pass with a place like Ragged or even Dartmouth Skiway? Ppl in the Upper Valley may not want to lock a family in to Whaleback all season but having a mtn kids can learn at or use during the week or parents can ski after work/race league and then a bigger option close by for wknd trips could make sense. As I recall Ragged and the Skiway offered a joint pass last yr but I don;t see them doing it this year.
Newpylong
Well-known member
Yes, but the idea was for a restaurant year round, not bar.
I agree with others though, I think there are better ways for revenue. I don't see it.
I agree with others though, I think there are better ways for revenue. I don't see it.
Restaurant: yeah, but I think it is a bit out of the way unfortunately. Great road exposure, but folks driving southbound see it after the exit and its on the outskirts of town. But it's also the first thing you come to when coming from the south and heading north.
Joint pass: they were doing reciprocal deals with Burke, Jay, and Ascutney at one point.
Joint pass: they were doing reciprocal deals with Burke, Jay, and Ascutney at one point.
ScottySkis
Well-known member
bobbutts
New member
I'm not sure what to suggest for off season activities there. I think NE is kind of getting overloaded with zip lines and alpine coasters.
For winter, Xwhaler's 3 points about winter operations and marketing make sense to me.
For winter, Xwhaler's 3 points about winter operations and marketing make sense to me.
4aprice
Well-known member
Interesting post SMAS. Whaleback was my home mountain between 1975-1979 when I attended KUA. Had a blast at the place particularly on The Face and Blowhole when they were bumped up. Skied Jawbone on the 1st day they ever opened it in hip deep powder, a run that is etched in my mind forever. Lots of good memories. Agree that the family route would be the way to go. As for solutions to their problems my thoughts are that along with increased snowmaking, a good beginner lift (more then the current carpet they have if that even runs) is in order. I would also suggest they light the whole mountain and become the king of night skiing in the Upper Valley Area. Dartmouth, Ragged and Sunapee don't have it (not sure about Storr's Hill) and I have to believe there is enough skiing/boarding population to support it.
Alex
Lake Hopatcong, NJ
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