What do you think , NY in the Ski Biz???

[AdironRider]

Jackson is a pretty bad comparison as its probably one of the most remote ski areas in the country, let alone the world. The closest city is Salt Lake, and most people there arent making that trip more than once a year with AltaBird right there. Pocatello and Idaho Falls types dont have the coin or the skill mostly (definitely generalizing here) to bypass Targhee for Jackson. Pretty much everywhere else other than Telluride has a major population center thats a realistic daytrip away.

But Jackson still feels crowded with 5000 people here. Our lift system isnt all that spectacular in terms of getting the most people uphill in the quickest time possible. We make up for it in quality though.

Lines would be the wrong term for Jackson on a powder morning during a holiday week. Its more of one massive blob that filters onto three lifts. So clearly dont come here, itll be all tracked out once you get here

 

[Rambo]

OH NO! Belleayre has a new groomer... A state of the art Prinoth BR 350.

I always wondered why Bristol Mtn., always complains about unfair competition from NY State owned Belleayre. Then I see Bristol has some kind of tie-in with Windham.

 

[legalskier]

Plattekill is a great area and you should not be spooked. There is plenty of cruising terrain.
It is never crowded on the weekends which is a great thing for weekend skiing in the Catskills.

+1
Definitely worth checking out. The only way to find out whether you like it is to ski it. It has a devoted following, myself included.

 

[legalskier]

Never heard of Bearpen

Here's an old postcard image of it from skijournal. Sad story- as a young man Dr Lane put his heart and soul into creating it. His father died while working on the mountain. All for naught due to a superior title claim.

 

[JimmyPete]

Here's an old postcard image of it from skijournal. Sad story- as a young man Dr Lane put his heart and soul into creating it. His father died while working on the mountain. All for naught due to a superior title claim.

With all the built in demand downstate , Capital district, and Jersey can't we find some rich guys to buy and start this place up . Heard it's in a good snow catching area

 

[dmc]

With all the built in demand downstate , Capital district, and Jersey can't we find some rich guys to buy and start this place up .

I think it's owned by multiple people now.. And they don't don't get along very well..

We hiked and rode it a few years back.. It's got great terrain to be sure..

 

[BenedictGomez]

It's a moot issue, because NY State and taxed and spent itself into the ground. Not to mention all the ridiculous public and union pension problems. So it aint gonna happen.

The last thing government needs to be doing is running more ski areas. Private enterprise is about 1000 times more efficient than government, and as has been noted above, private enterprise sometimes fails in the ski industry. Given that fact, it's a good bet that a very large (think Stowe, Killington etc..) resort run by the government would operate at a loss and only survive in a subsidized manner by the New York taxpayer. And I wouldnt even want to contemplate how much government corruption there would be at a Killington-sized resort run by New York State. lol. i.e. Exactly what we DONT need.

 

[bigbog]

Why not? I don't think the recreational centers are the cause of NYS's corruption/financial woes...y/n? = Just a hope of disinformation by other corrupt departments of state government. What could be worse than large real estate firms collecting overpriced admittance and defaulting on operational(and safety) services within a resort.. The last people I'd have involved in running outdoor recreational areas would be NYC personnel = like making Dubya's financial people lifetime....

 

[dmc]

Why not? I don't think the recreational centers are the cause of NYS's financial woes...y/n? = Just a hope of disinformation by other corrupt departments of state government. What could be worse than large real estate firms collecting money and defaulting on operational(and safety) services within a resort..?

At this point it's not only about causes - it's about how to get out of the financial "woes"..

I'd personally prefer my tax $ goes to paying teachers or funding schools and infrastructure projects that everyone needs..

 

[Warp Daddy]

NYS has a financial debacle and many sources contributed to the formation of the problem. Both private ( really quasi public given corp welfare , pilot deals , tax abatements and other incentives) and public sectors are culpable. I'm not interested in finger pointing but am deeply concerned that problems in BOTH sectors are seriously addressed .

Although i love this sport passionately , Skiing is a discretionary activity and not foundational to meeting basic human needs . The state needs to address other more onerous needs in the hierarchy of priorities rather than continue the current mode of operation for ski areas. Perhaps an intermediate solution is to consign the operation to a contractor for a % of the operating revenue stream with the ultimate goal of sale

 

[goldsbar]

Been through this gov't thing before but the NY potential part of this thread is really interesting. 1900 vert would be great. My main day trip mountain for the last couple of years has been Belleayre due to the cheap kids school. All told, it's really only about 800 feet before you're down to the beginner terrain. Speed runs are over in a flash. There's always been some fringe talk - not this year - of opening up down to the swimming pond. Can't see it happening. Also understand that Hunter could have more vert if it wasn't for the state. They have some decent vert and steepness now but a few hundred more couldn't hurt.

As far as another area, Bobcat(?) near Roxbury tried opening years ago. Lasted for a couple of weeks I believe. Never got there. While most areas are crowded to somewhat crowded, seems like supporting one more would be tough. Unfortunately, I think we're stuck with what we have.

As for Jackson, the opening lines on a powder day are a mess but the gondola only takes 15 minutes to get on when the singles line is down the hill. Thunder & Sublette are then usually much better. Tram is for suckers unless you wake up 2 hours early. Once you're off those lines, the trails are uncrowded. Hobacks are always empty. All the locals are gone by noon. People also understand how to get on a lift in Jackson - they almost never stop. I've spent 15 minutes in line time after time to ski boilerplate in the Catskills surrounded by 100 of my closest friends.

 

[JimmyPete]

Pretty good discussion, I do think that one more area couldn't hurt , certainly a few more trails at Hunter [Cuomo take note, more sales tax rev], agree that Belleayre does flatten out too quickly except for Dot Nebel, some more trails like that would be welcome, Meanwhile as long as Gore , Whiteface, West, and Belleayre are doing a more than decent job why mess with success?????

 

[Harvey]

An ancillary question. I have looked and looked.

Is there any way to tell if Belleayre, breaks even, makes or loses money?

 

[x10003q]

Here are some current photos from Bearpen Mtn:
Bearpen Mtn

 

[catskills]

Everyone thinks that Government run services are inefficient and over priced. In many cases that is not true. The US government put a man on the moon. Pretty damn impressive if you ask me.

 

[gladerider]

i'd be mighty pissed off if albany politics closes/disrupts whiteface operations

 

[ERJ-145CA]

Everyone thinks that Government run services are inefficient and over priced. In many cases that is not true.

Shhhh. Don't tell anybody, the privatizers have friends who need to make money off formerly public services.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Everyone thinks that Government run services are inefficient and over priced. In many cases that is not true.

I'm listening? Examples?

 

[Black Phantom]

Shhhh. Don't tell anybody, the privatizers have friends who need to make money off formerly public services.

Unlike public sector employees?

 

[RootDKJ]

I'm listening? Examples?

How about the DEA. $1 Trillion in spending over the past 40 years with nothing to show for it is pretty much the paradigm of over-priced and and in-efficient.