What the heck is going on at Magic?

[Newpylong]

IMO the real beauty of the green chair is not only accessibility to exclusively lower mountain runs in terms of families, but also for races and most importantly being able to open the hill earlier and at a lower startup cost. They could open the whole lower mountain much faster and easier than blowing all of upper carpet and then trick to wand to showoff. Getting those visitor dollars flowing much sooner would have a huge impact on the bottom line too. Lower mountain around thanksgiving? Yes please!! :beer:

Almost the same thought process at Whaleback to the T which is why the plan is to restore the West Side. It was a secluded beginner/intermediate area served by a Poma, a step up from the carpet/tow to the chair. Sold the lift and never replaced it.

Getting a lift back will not only provide an awesome learning area but the ability to open earlier (early December vs late) on 5 acres of snow vs 25 off the summit. There would be early season terrain for training as well.

 

[makimono]

The Green Chair is still complete and could potentially be finished? I thought I read somewhere that there were issues with the tower installation but maybe that was internet BS.

From chairlift.org and newenglandskihistory.com the Green Chair (Phoenix Lift) is a Borvig fixed double manufactured in 1982 at Stratton (Betwixt Chair) and was removed in 1995. Originally it was 3235' length and 649' vertical. Installation was started at Magic in 2003 but not completed (most towers plus the summit bullwheel and partial base terminal).

 

[makimono]

A lift like Stowe's Easy Street Dopplemayr Double for $75k would like nice on the beginner slope :dunce:

 

[thetrailboss]

The Green Chair is still complete and could potentially be finished? I thought I read somewhere that there were issues with the tower installation but maybe that was internet BS.

From chairlift.org and newenglandskihistory.com the Green Chair (Phoenix Lift) is a Borvig fixed double manufactured in 1982 at Stratton (Betwixt Chair) and was removed in 1995. Originally it was 3235' length and 649' vertical. Installation was started at Magic in 2003 but not completed (most towers plus the summit bullwheel and partial base terminal).

I was wondering that as well. From what I can see on Chairlift.org and other sites, some of those towers don't look to be completely "true" or not set right.

 

[skithetrees]

A lift like Stowe's Easy Street Dopplemayr Double for $75k would like nice on the beginner slope :dunce:

Reminds me of the original chair over there.

 

[Newpylong]

I wonder what Berkshire East did with magic's original Green chair?

 

[WoodCore]

I wonder what Berkshire East did with magic's original Green chair?

It's still sitting in the parking lot.

 

[Do Work]

A lift like Stowe's Easy Street Dopplemayr Double for $75k would like nice on the beginner slope :dunce:

I'd love a chair over there but there are a bunch of ziplines going across the run... I'm guessing at the very least there would be licensing and/or lease issues with running an actual chair over there. That's why I was thinking T-Bar. It can make corners, stays down low below the ziplines and would be a very low cost alternative.


*not an expert opinion

 

[skithetrees]

I think we are confusing green versus blue. The original blue/Phoenix lift is up and running at BE. I have ridden it. Not sure about the original green/beginner area lift.

 

[skithetrees]

I'd love a chair over there but there are a bunch of ziplines going across the run... I'm guessing at the very least there would have be licensing and/or lease issues with running an actual chair over there. That's why I was thinking T-Bar. It can make corners, stays down low below the ziplines and would be a very low cost alternative.


*not an expert opinion

Good point, but I think t bars and rope toes are the worst possible things for beginners. Except if you are a warren miller bloopers scene.

 

[marcski]

Carpet lifts are just now starting to come up on the used market. Hence, Platty's new carpet lift in the learning center for this season.

 

[WoodCore]

I think we are confusing green versus blue. The original blue/Phoenix lift is up and running at BE. I have ridden it. Not sure about the original green/beginner area lift.

Not running anymore, it was replaced with a Skytrac quad last summer.

 

[skithetrees]

Did not know that. Have not been there in a while. Good info.

 

[slatham]

Would love to see the Stowe double get installed in the old beginner area. Assuming in good working order, $75k sounds like a good deal. Wonder what install costs would be?

Re: Green/Phoenix, previous ownership directly told me it would take $250k to complete. I do not know if that was a back of the envelope number or a lift techs well researched quote. Nor do I know how much it might have changed since then.

I am actually a fan of completing Green. If the $250k is correct, its a fraction of the cost of replacing Black. And with Green you get:
1) Beginner/Intermediate/family oriented lift
2) Lift line pressure relief
3) Race team usage
4) Full marketing benefit of having a "new" lift, plus an increase in the number of lifts at Magic
5) Easier/lower cost to open in early season (I would also argue it gets West Side - Wiz/Tali - open sooner since beginner/intermediate terrain already available)
6) Elimination of an eyesore!

IMHO

 

[Do Work]

Good point, but I think t bars and rope toes are the worst possible things for beginners. Except if you are a warren miller bloopers scene.

Meh. They'll learn quick. For what it would cost to buy & install a legit chair in Rabbit Run, the green/phoenix could be up and running AND we could have a T bar or carpet up Rabbit Run. It just doesn't make sense to me to invest that kind of cash when we have so much to do elsewhere and we could make a massive improvement with minimal investment in the form of a surface lift. Also, it's not like they're impossible! I'd be willing to bet most of us learned on one. Tossing chairlifts around like mardi gras beads just seems like an overreach to me at this stage. There's a lot to do and money isn't unlimited, that's for sure.


*not an expert opinion

 

[makimono]

Yeah I'm sure the purchase cost of a used lift is barely a fraction of the total installation cost. I was just mid-summer E-dreaming

But yeah T-bars are awesome. They build confidence and character and balance. When I was a beginner I was always more intimidated by chair lifts...and Poma's too! My dad used to carry me under his arm like a football as he rode the Poma up at Mt Tom, VT. And my sister fell off the Poma and turned around just in time to get whacked in the face by the next empty Poma, broke her nose at age 13 LOL. So no Butt Discs.

 

[skithetrees]

I guess I am thinking of really young kids. Also, structurally, you had to pass under the old beginner chair to exit the area. I am sure they could work something out with a t bar though. That said, provided they could use the old footings (except prob the terminal), I bet they could buy and install a beginner chair for far less than finishing Phoenix. Limited number of towers, easy terrain. They put up the Phoenix towers with a shovel! I bet a new green would be far easier! That and I am not convinced Phoenix could even work at this point. I bet so many parts are lost/in poor condition that it may be cheaper and easier to start over.

Do work, to quote you, I am no expert. Just someone who has been around the montain nearly 30 years and sled skied it when closed. It's fun to speculate about getting the place back together and a lot easier and cheaper than doing it myself. If I could, I would.

I am a firm believer that families keep mountains open, not powder hounds. Name one mountain that survived by catering to a non-family crowd. Maybe mad river, but that is the only real example. Not to say magic is not a family mountain, but the powder hounds who show up a few days a year aren't goI got to keep the mountain running. Sure they help, especially with the numbers magic currently turns, but I think a true beginner area is crucial to luring and keeping new families and making magic sustainable.

 

[slatham]

FB update that they are also working on Red! Too much for me to handle - working on both lifts, simultaneously! Maybe they will in fact both run. But seriously, the new ownership isn't technically in place yet and there's all this activity. Great to see!

 

[Newpylong]

http://www.chairlift.org/pics/ma/ma55.jpg

 

[makimono]

Craig Kelly in the halfpipe?