When Snow Reports are Posted

[riverc0il]

Isn't it funny when some ski areas choose to post Snow Reports (*Cough* Jay *Cough*). There is this one funny ski area that posted a Snow Report Saturday morning at 5:48am after six inches of snow was reported. This is a time that people might be checking reports in the morning deciding where to go. Then today, the following day, no report at 8:03am when most people have already left the house and are en route. No new snow today following a cold windy day that picked the mountain clean and left horrid scraped conditions on the trails. I think that is funny.

Here is an idea :idea: consistently report snow conditions regardless of how good or bad they are at the same time every day. No vested interest here because I knew what the conditions were going to be today and already decided it wasn't worth the four hour round trip drive. Just something I noticed this morning while poking around.

 

[koreshot]

I think Jay is particularly good at playing the snow report game. They have so many levels of deception, even beyond what you mentioned.

1. Roemer - regularly talking the snow totals up. I notice this is done early, and before the storm and is especially intense when a weekend is coming up to sucker people into a weekend visit for "the big dump".
2. Inflated snow totals.
3. Comments in the report like "we might have some wind today" but the interactive trail map says all the lifts are running, when they know full well that there is no chance they will open the freezer and the tram.

It is unfortunate because Jay is such an amazing place to ski, when the snow conditions are right. I plan on visiting them this year as I do every year, but I am not trusting their silly website for actual conditions.

 

[riverc0il]

I actually think Jay is honest about wind. They usually let folks know when it will be windy. This past weekend they said it would be windy but probably not effect operations but encouraged people to call ahead for latest conditions. That is actually the one part of their snow report that is usually the most accurate and easy to read between the lines. I thought Jay ditched Roemer but I could be wrong. I try to make a point of congratulating Jay in my reports when they do right by me on their snow reports. If you always bash someone, they don't take you seriously because you are just a hater. But I give props where props are due and they are good about noting when the wind hits hard and rarely boost trail and lift reports (under reporting trail counts these past two weekends as patrol hadn't checked out some skiable runs).

 

[tjf67]

I dont think they play up the snow total as much as people think. Every time I am there I keep an eye out on the amount of snow that falls and it seems to be pretty acurate when I get home and check.

10 inches of Lake effect with 30 mph winds does not stick around long.

 

[JPTracker]

I think what Jay is worst at is reporting the snow making progress. Last year they had snow making on the trail status report and it was so inaccurate that they removed it for this year. Earlier this they reported that they were going to be making snow in hopes to get the flyer possibly open for this weekend when there was no way this would happen. On November 19 on the picture of the day they report "Guns are running on Interstate" when in fact the snow gun they showed was on Queens Highway which runs across the bottom of interstate. Snowmaking didn't begin on Interstate until the 28.

I could go on but when it comes to snowmaking reports they are usually way to optimistic.

 

[crank]

I find Roemer to be overly optimistic. I find Jay's snow total reports to be fairly accurate. (I only make it up there an average of 4 or 5 days a season.) I find Jay's snow reports to be deceptive in what they leave out of the report, (What Rivercoil says.)... and, therefore, dishonest in their reporting.

Sure tell me the snow totals, but also tell me it raind for 5-hours and then froze up hard before the 5" of snow came down. Knowing Jay, I expect it to be blowing like snot about 60% of my days there.

Hey, wouldn't be nice if they turned the Freezer into a bubble chair like at St. Anne. The winds would probably snatch them off the lift and blow you over to Timbukto.

 

[koreshot]

I didn't know they ditched Roemer. Good for them, he was probably the biggest problem with their snow reports. Optimistic is an understatement - he would sometimes predict 2+ feet and it would rain.

I have had a couple of bad wind hold experiences, so maybe it was just my luck.

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

When the lifts at Jay Peak aren't running due to wind hold..Mont Sutton across the border is a good optional because it's more sheltered..Tomorrow there'll be some serious windholds with 50+ mph winds..

 

[riverc0il]

Burke is a good option as well regarding wind hold at Jay. I did the V-Day thing last year at Burke. If they can get the fixed grips open then there is nothing better than wind hold any ways.

 

[JD]

Agreed. One day last year Stowe got rain. They report on the web site "No changeover at Jay" . Of course, that was at 6 am, it rained for an hour just after that and they didn't update to the change in conditions. I got there, did't even poke a snowbank, bought a ticket, took a run, sold the ticket in the lot to a kid for 20 bucks and told him it was crust, but he wanted it anyway. 2 hours of driving for 1 run. Crap.
The last St. P's day we got 20 inches friday night, 20 saturday. They reported 36. I got back to stowe for Monday and no one believed me. You just can't trust 'em. They don't lie, but they don't tell the truth either.

 

[riverc0il]

Jeez, this isn't supposed to be a lynch mob specifically against Jay but was using them as an example of selective updating of the snow report. A lot of ski areas are very good about posting regular updates at specific times. Cannon used to be that way but I can't speak for them in recent years. MRG of course is the bench mark. Who else is good about posting timely and frequent reports?

 

[davidhowland14]

you get an actual update with the actual # of trails. This morning, Jay's text blurb said 50 trails, their snow report said 36, and their count of trails was 36.

 

[inhalexhale]

Snow reporting is a rough part of the job. I for one am pretty much always truthful, you'll definitely hear "wintry mix" and "mixed precip" on the snowphone report (although I will tell you that I catch a lot of flack for using the word "precipitation"). I think it's totally unfair when areas inflate the snowfall as well, and our tallies never reflect even "trace rounded up to one inch" as many areas do.

Two major obstacles for snow reporting:

1. Elevation. If it's raining at the base and snowing at the top, it's difficult to convey what exactly is taking place. A lot of the generic reporting forms (SANY, Snocountry, Mountain News) give you a limited number of options to choose from. It's not always easy to document what's going on.

2. Time. I get to work at 6:30 and the snow reports generally update around 6:50am. Afternoon reporting goes out at 3:30 for the next day. Remember that the people who snow report are normal, everyday people and things come up. I've found that people are pretty unforgiving when they are late.

Each area is different and I can really only speak for Hunter, but there are a lot of issues (legal, bureaucratic, operational) surrounding snow reporting and it's not one of the simpler things about the industry. Just things to keep in mind I guess.

 

[riverc0il]

you get an actual update with the actual # of trails. This morning, Jay's text blurb said 50 trails, their snow report said 36, and their count of trails was 36.

Doesn't much matter as they are all skiable if you can get to them at this point.

 

[riverc0il]

2. Time. I get to work at 6:30 and the snow reports generally update around 6:50am. Afternoon reporting goes out at 3:30 for the next day. Remember that the people who snow report are normal, everyday people and things come up. I've found that people are pretty unforgiving when they are late.

First off, I respect the fact that you need to get to work at 6:30, couldn't pay me enough to do that. But this kinda misses my big point which isn't so much about when but about consistency. Getting a snow report up for 5:30 when it is great but then not until 8:00 when it is bad doesn't fly in my book.

:smash:

Good for you if you are consistent. Wish more areas were. I know Cannon used to be like clockwork but I can't speak for them recently.

Oh, here is another "timely" concern about Jay Peak reporting.... I usually get their emails about big dumps a day late LOL It always makes me laugh so hard when I get yesterday's report the next day.

 

[inhalexhale]

I think that if the report wasn't available until that late, I'd call. I have people call me every so often and ask questions, I'd certainly think you could do that with other resorts. No?

 

[billski]

100%

On a snow day I usually don't have time to logon. I have all the resorts programmed into my cellphone. Ask for the snow report, or ask the person who answers. If you call early enough (say, 5am, but please dial the digits carefully), someone from operations usually answers the phone and is glad to speak with someone. It's best to ask specific questions, than a wide open question (how much snow did you get last night? how are the roads? did it rain? are they gonna open anything today? any lift holds?) That's what we did the in the old days, it was 100% reliable.

 

[ta&idaho]

Snowcam

Resorts that already have some webcams up on their websites should consider adding one like this: http://www.brundage.com/web-cams.aspx (top left "snowcam"). It provides a contiuously updated, consistent and objective assessment of snow totals each day.

It does make it a little hard to get work done on a snow day, though...

 

[Mr MRG]

Jeez, this isn't supposed to be a lynch mob specifically against Jay but was using them as an example of selective updating of the snow report. A lot of ski areas are very good about posting regular updates at specific times. Cannon used to be that way but I can't speak for them in recent years. MRG of course is the bench mark. Who else is good about posting timely and frequent reports?

Thanks for the props. We take a great deal of pride in our honest and accurate snow reporting and take the subject very seriously. In my opinion honest and frequent snow reporting is the best way for us to develop a long term relationship with our skiers. Just like you wouldn't have friends that lie or are disreputable why would you frequent a ski area that lies or is disreputable? For the most part ski areas IMHO seem to be getting significantly more honest than in years past. Our neighbors at Sugarbush for example finished last season within like 2" of us for the seasonal snowfall totals. Pretty amazing when you consider all the variables involved. I think that the internet age has made lying a really dumb idea. Another plus for the technology. Thanks Al Gore, that internet idea was a good one! Interestingly when I started at MRG a dozen years ago it would take me a good 2 hours to complete all teh snow reporting functions. Today I can do it in less than 15 minutes easy. Now if I can only figure out how to do it and remain sleeping!

FYI we (actually I mean me cuz I'm the one that has to do it every freakin' morning!!!) submit our reports to www.snocountry.com (the leader in media snow reports - full disclosure - I'm on their board of trustees) before 5:45 AM every day. This ensures that the latest info gets to the media outlets (radio stations, websites and newspapers) in that days reports.

Speaking for MRG, I update our website at the same time. At the same time I send them to our email lists, do the phone report and create the daily fax reports. Generally I do an afternoon update as well usually around 4 PM. If there is a "snow event" or other change to conditions or trail count I may update our website throughout the day. The afternoon reports are also sent to snocountry. Just thought folks would be interested in the process. Feel free to let me know if you have any further questions on this or any other topic.

Now for my sleazy marketing pitch:
COME SKIING ON MRG'S OPENING DAY TOMORROW - IT IS GOING TO BE AWESOME - THE BEST $35 YOU'LL EVER SPEND!!!!!!!!!

 

[riverc0il]

FWIW, in reference to Eric's reference to ski areas getting better with reporting, Jay has been very much on point this year regarding snow totals.