Why resorts suck...

[JD]

skiing is free...lifts cost money.

 

[jaywbigred]

skiing is free...lifts cost money.

Your thinking of cost only in terms of money. Cost can also be measured in time or amounts of hard work. So if you are earning your turns, it may not cost you a cent (past your backcountry set-up, which probably is more expensive than the set-up you need for a resort, especially if you carry all the appropriate safety gear), but it will certainly cost you more time and sweat, especially on a "per vertical foot" basis.

So, while a virgin/virgin snow may (or may not) cost you less dollars out of your pocket, it will also cost you more time and hard work.

Bumps/a lady of the night may cost you more out of pocket but much less in terms of time and hard work.

...anywho....

 

[Greg]

There is your answer right there. Pow is generally overrated. People go crazy. Its fun, but c'mon!

I tend to agree. I don't feel the actual joy of skiing powder is overrated, but insisting on untracked certainly is. At least for me.

skiing is free...lifts cost money.

To each his own. Earning turns exclusively just wouldn't do it for me. I love the descent part of skiing, and like to do a lot of it. A couple runs each outing is just not enough for me, untracked or not. I'll take four hours of ripping spring bumps under a bluebird sky when it's 50 degrees over one or two runs of untracked snow any day. Many more opportunities for that here in the flatlands too.

 

[severine]

Oh that's naive.

Virgins and pow cost you plenty of time, money and hard work before you get the gusto.

Bumps and ladies of the night take a lot less time and hard work, but perhaps a little bit more money.

This extended metaphor works a little too well...

Your thinking of cost only in terms of money. Cost can also be measured in time or amounts of hard work. So if you are earning your turns, it may not cost you a cent (past your backcountry set-up, which probably is more expensive than the set-up you need for a resort, especially if you carry all the appropriate safety gear), but it will certainly cost you more time and sweat, especially on a "per vertical foot" basis.

So, while a virgin/virgin snow may (or may not) cost you less dollars out of your pocket, it will also cost you more time and hard work.

Bumps/a lady of the night may cost you more out of pocket but much less in terms of time and hard work.

...anywho....

It's scary how much thought you've put into this metaphor!

:lol: Good one, though!

 

[jaywbigred]

It's scary how much thought you've put into this metaphor!

:lol: Good one, though!

I totally agree

And for the record, I haven't been to Amsterdam...yet...

 

[JD]

I'm long on time and short on money. I also ski half my days from my house. No Gas or lift ticket.
AND, I bartered for my skis, my boots cost 100 bucks, my skins cost 100 bucks. My poles were free. I bought my shell and ski pants from Steep and Cheep, total, $230. Other then that I don't really carry anything special. Over the last 4 season I have saved 3000 bucks not buying passes. I'd say I'm ahead. Plus exercise, which you see as a "cost", I see as a necessary part of my sanity. Intense cardio releases chemicals in your brain you just don't get unless you "work" really hard, or take zoloft. Going up makes me feel good, and lapping a resort overnadoverandoverandoverandoverandoverandoverandover is just so freaking boring. I honestly can not imagine how people buy passes at the same area year after year and ski the same runs day after day without being bored to death.....the only way to keep it interesting would be to learn to tele, then snowboard, then teleboard....after being a pass holder at Stowe for 5 years I was over it..... but different strokes.

 

[Geoff]

I totally agree

And for the record, I haven't been to Amsterdam...yet...

The difference is that you can ski that untracked powder line the next time it snows. Last I knew, you couldn't reflower a nonvirgin.

...and the hookers in the windows in Amsterdam are nasty. I've been in Amsterdam a bunch o' times. It's not like you have to work very hard at it to get some for free.

 

[AHM]

Great thread.........

Resort vs backcountry: I think both are actually quite good. Each has their place, their own culture and their own unique vibe. All aspects of mechanized skiing can be quite fun and backcountry skiing rocks. The combination of the two really is just fantastic. I recently came back from Canada where I skied a lift day at Revi (some nice coulior hiking in North bowl if you know the area, two cat days at white grizzly, and 5 days in Rogers. I liked every aspect of it. This week I skied Greylock on Tuesday, will again be there tomorrow and will ski Sugarbush on Fri - Sun and enjoy the lifts and sidecountry. Again, that combination is what makes skiing such an interesting and not boring sport. I love bump skiing and enjoy (and certainly will enjoy) great mogul skiing this weekend, not too mention what should be some pretty good woods skiing. In that way the lift is fabulous. Lots of down and pretty easy up.

To JD: skiing the same run over and over and over. Not really the same run and a big hill (a la Stowe (yours) and SB (mine) has a whole lot to offer the lift served skier and features excellent side country). Multiple lift served runs also builds ski legs, something that I will argue is very necessary for backcountry skiing.

To Greg: I think you should spend a bit more time in the backcountry and you would find that aspect quite enjoyable. It's a different vibe but a great one. Finding a hidden bowl while I was in Rogers was just a gem of a find. It was untracked, 1200 verts and we lapped it quite a bit before finishing a 3000 vert run (bottom was all nice trees and fresh snow).

So, as you grab your gear and make your decisions, realize every aspect of the sport is fabulous. From 500 vert Boyne Mt to 8000 vert La Grave to places like Rogers, Wolverine Cirque and Rocky Mountain National Park........it's all great and everyone of us is lucky that we get to participate. Enjoy the spring and here's hoping for some more big storms. A bit of Rogers going near the top of the Lily Glacier..............

 

[campgottagopee]

I'm long on time and short on money. I also ski half my days from my house. No Gas or lift ticket.
AND, I bartered for my skis, my boots cost 100 bucks, my skins cost 100 bucks. My poles were free. I bought my shell and ski pants from Steep and Cheep, total, $230. Other then that I don't really carry anything special. Over the last 4 season I have saved 3000 bucks not buying passes. I'd say I'm ahead. Plus exercise, which you see as a "cost", I see as a necessary part of my sanity. Intense cardio releases chemicals in your brain you just don't get unless you "work" really hard, or take zoloft. Going up makes me feel good, and lapping a resort overnadoverandoverandoverandoverandoverandoverandover is just so freaking boring. I honestly can not imagine how people buy passes at the same area year after year and ski the same runs day after day without being bored to death.....the only way to keep it interesting would be to learn to tele, then snowboard, then teleboard....after being a pass holder at Stowe for 5 years I was over it..... but different strokes.

I hear ya and part of me digs what you are saying. But for me time is something I don't have a lot of so buying a pass and kickin ass for an hour makes me feel good. Like you said...different strokes

 

[Greg]

Plus exercise, which you see as a "cost", I see as a necessary part of my sanity. Intense cardio releases chemicals in your brain you just don't get unless you "work" really hard, or take zoloft. Going up makes me feel good, and lapping a resort overnadoverandoverandoverandoverandoverandoverandover is just so freaking boring. I honestly can not imagine how people buy passes at the same area year after year and ski the same runs day after day without being bored to death.....the only way to keep it interesting would be to learn to tele, then snowboard, then teleboard....after being a pass holder at Stowe for 5 years I was over it..... but different strokes.

Different strokes indeed. And trust me, fall line bump skiing is intense cardio. I thought I was in pretty decent shape after all the mountain biking I did this summer and fair amount of skiing so far this season, but the new bump run at our little local molehill had me gasping for air a few times.

And if you think the same runS at a single mountain can get boring, try the same run every time. Better yet, more often than not, I've skied the same line until recently when a new (and helluva lot better) run was seeded. Bump skiing really is not about variety, but rather perfecting technique (or at least trying to). That is an addiction in and of itself. Some people will never understand it.

We are about as polar opposite as they come I suspect.

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

I only ski virgin snow. Bumps are like getting a hooker in Amsterdam.

lol..unfortunately the one time I was in Amsterdam was with my ex..so no hookers..:roll: but plenty of white widow..mmmm

 

[JD]

One aspect of skiing is totally fabricated. One is totally naturally occuring. I like harvesting what mother nature provides. And I don't want to interact with anyone who's not on my trip, like the author of the rant that started this thread. I will avoid the lift served road rage at all costs...other folks, like GS, love the rat race to shred every flake of Poe...but that is another reason to ski....you can find your niche that most fits the experience you require to keep the wiring from shorting out during the work week.

 

[Greg]

One aspect of skiing is totally fabricated. One is totally naturally occuring. I like harvesting what mother nature provides.

Skiing in and of itself is fabricated. If you're striving for totally naturally occurring, go to take a hike.

 

[AHM]

Fabricated ????

JD: Your Stowe backcountry experience is not all that pristine and unfabricated. If you ski Hellbrook, GMC maintains the trail, same as profanity, tear drop, etc. Overall, and yep I am pretty familiar with the terrain, there is not a whole lot of consequence. In fact most likely as you skin up the Bruce, someone (many) helped cut that trail--seems kind of manufactured to me. Although La Grave put in the lift and hence in your mind it is fabricated, the skiing is ungodly raw, has huge consequence and very very natural. Skiing in Rogers pass, although lift free also has some fabricated aspects to it--there is an approach trail into the Lily, Asulkan or Illecillewat glaciers and the work of others helps that trail exist. Just like Taft lodge at Stowe, the Asulkan hut was put there by the Alpine Club of Canada. So again some manufacturing. Once on the glacier, things are decidedly different and there are some pretty big consequences to not knowing what you are doing. You are no where near rescue, something that within reason you are in the Stowe backcountry.

As for not interacting with anyone not on your trip, I would say you are missing out on an important aspect of backcountry skiing and skiing in general, which is meeting the souls who participate in the activity. Learning from them, smiling, laughing with them and enjoying the "stoke" that goes with a great day of skiing be it on the lifts, in the side country or in the unadultered alpine. Have a great season, laugh a lot and share in the brotherhood that is snow sliding.

 

[JD]

First of all, I would never skin up the Bruce.
Second of all, we are way off topic. The point of the thread was to talk about the attitude represented in the rant I copied over.
ps
don't worry about me, I'm pretty stoked with my crew and where we ski, which is FAR from Stowecentric.

 

[Greg]

First of all, I would never skin up the Bruce.
Second of all, I wasn't saying I don't ski cut lines, I was saying I don't ski man made snow, or snow that has been transformed into bumps by hundreds of skiers. I want virgin snow.
If it ain't POE, I don't go.
And don't worry about me missing out. I am very satisfied with my ski experience....I've been there and done that with the lift thing. Too many A$$holes. I prefer soft, unmarked snow with good friends close to home. To each there own.....
and my skiing if far from stowecentric. When I go to the shitshow, I go early and leave early.

You could have said all this in three words: I am jaded.

:lol:

 

[JD]

You could have said all this in three words: I am jaded.

:lol:

Greg, you're quick, I edited it.
My resort experience turned me off. I've been attacked on the ski trail. I've watched old ladies be pushed over and nearly trampled in the rush for the first gondi car. I've seen fist fights on the line up over first trail, and I've endured countless lift rides listening to tools drop all the names of all the places they've skiies in an attempt to portray themselves a "real" skier. Yes, it jaded me. I decided to eliminate that aspect of skiing from my experience. Best thing I ever did for pure enjoyment of the activity. Reading Arc1's rant on skimrv brought it all back...and to me, THAT is why resorts suck. Not because everything get's bumped and fresh snow gets skiied off as fast as it falls, but because lift serve it up for the masses, and I don't want to hang out with the masses when I ski. It's my temple, and they are not allowed in...
Snob, maybe. Missing out????
Think not.
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[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

Greg, you're quick, I edited it.
My resort experience turned me off. I've been attacked on the ski trail. I've watched old ladies be pushed over and nearly trampled in the rush for the first gondi car. I've seen fist fights on the line up over first trail, and I've endured countless lift rides listening to tools drop all the names of all the places they've skiies in an attempt to portray themselves a "real" skier. Yes, it jaded me. I decided to eliminate that aspect of skiing from my experience. Best thing I ever did for pure enjoyment of the activity. Reading Arc1's rant on skimrv brought it all back...and to me, THAT is why resorts suck. Not because everything get's bumped and fresh snow gets skiied off as fast as it falls, but because lift serve it up for the masses, and I don't want to hang out with the masses when I ski. It's my temple, and they are not allowed in...
Snob, maybe. Missing out????
Think not.
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All of those things is why I like resort skiing..I gets high off the drama..I like skiing high speed groomers, seeded bump runs..slackcountry and eating 8 dollar bowls of chili among women wearing fur coats and men wearing neon one piece ski suits..

 

[JD]

Skiing in and of itself is fabricated. If you're striving for totally naturally occurring, go to take a hike.

Not sure how this is true, but I was refering specifically to the surface. Skiing manmade, or bumped up snow is skiing on a made surface. Skiing the snow that fell from the sky on top of base that has laid there all winter is totally natural surface, and generally is soft, silent, flight.

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

Not sure how this is true, but I was refering specifically to the surface. Skiing manmade, or bumped up snow is skiing on a made surface. Skiing the snow that fell from the sky on top of base that has laid there all winter is totally natural surface, and generally is soft, silent, flight.

Isn't it natural for skiers to make moguls????