Why resorts suck...

[JD]

Isn't it natural for skiers to make moguls????

The fact that people MAKE them is my point.

 

[awf170]

Hey JD, sort of a random question, but I'm curious. Why do you never head over to Mt. Washington?

 

[deadheadskier]

One aspect of skiing is totally fabricated. One is totally naturally occuring. I like harvesting what mother nature provides. And I don't want to interact with anyone who's not on my trip, like the author of the rant that started this thread. I will avoid the lift served road rage at all costs...other folks, like GS, love the rat race to shred every flake of Poe...but that is another reason to ski....you can find your niche that most fits the experience you require to keep the wiring from shorting out during the work week.

Dig what you're sayin'

I just ski though.

Most certainly resort skiing can cause distractions, ever since a major accident in High School, I have a serious aversion to crowded trails fearing a collision with another skier. In the crowded forest, I don't feel that at all as the trees stand still

I won't claim to be some back country guy, but I have enough slack country experience in the Notch to know the quiet and remoteness of feeling like you're in a place completely void of development, like your statement of just harvesting natures bounty...natural experience. Love it.

I love skiing with a good crew, enjoy skiing alone, but also equally enjoy engaging and interacting with others who may not be on my 'trip', but are loving life on snow just the same. I like riding the lift with the old retiree guy who I hope to be some day; seeing a trail of ankle biting youngsters chasing an instructor, laughing inside on the lift riding next to teenagers who think their the coolest evah knowing I thought the same way as a kid.

I dig all that, which is just periphery.

Most of all though, I ski, because it's just me and gravity. Manipulating gravity. Whether a groomed run, a bump run, out in the woods......I'm just flying down a hill....with my head blank.

I truly feel that skiing is only as good as your last turn. Last Sunday at Ragged wouldn't even register in the top 100 lifetime if I were keeping score, the conditions were a solid D+. But....it's the ski day that matters most to me right now because it's when I skied last.

I think Warren Miller thinks like that. Not saying it's right, but it's the way I hope to always think about the sport.

 

[jaywbigred]

I'm long on time and short on money. I also ski half my days from my house. No Gas or lift ticket.

Well, if you are long on time and short on money, then you are a rich man compared to a lot of us who are short on both.

Time is an extremely valuable commodity to all of us, because we can use it to ski!

AND, I bartered for my skis, my boots cost 100 bucks, my skins cost 100 bucks. My poles were free. I bought my shell and ski pants from Steep and Cheep, total, $230. Other then that I don't really carry anything special. Over the last 4 season I have saved 3000 bucks not buying passes. I'd say I'm ahead.

Just because you bartered for your skis doesn't mean they didn't "cost" you something. Again, there are "costs" in life other than money. Giving up an item (to get another item) "cost" you that item. And I somehow I knew you were going to give an item-by-item cost-run through of your gear...

Plus exercise, which you see as a "cost", I see as a necessary part of my sanity. Intense cardio releases chemicals in your brain you just don't get unless you "work" really hard, or take zoloft.

I'm sorry, I don't know if you presume that I am a 400 lb couch potato that has never experienced an endorphin rush or what. Hiking up a mountain is labor; it requires expending an incredible number of calories, i.e. energy. That energy is a commodity. You could use it to build houses for the poor; you could use it to comb the beach or walk a highway as part of environmental clean-up; you could use it to spend a day at work and earn money. Point is, its a commodity, and expending it is a "cost" in the sense that you are giving it, forking it over, in the pursuit of a leisure time sport rather than some other endeavor. It may be necessary to one's sanity, i.e., a necessary cost, but its still a selfish expenditure of a valuable personal commodity in the pursuit of personal joy.

Going up makes me feel good, and lapping a resort overnadoverandoverandoverandoverandoverandoverandover is just so freaking boring.

Skiing a challenging, thigh burning bump run overnadoverandoverandoverandoverandoverandoverandover is in no way boring. I am sorry, but that is just not true.

I honestly can not imagine how people buy passes at the same area year after year and ski the same runs day after day without being bored to death.....the only way to keep it interesting would be to learn to tele, then snowboard, then teleboard....after being a pass holder at Stowe for 5 years I was over it..... but different strokes.

I would be ecstatic if I had the time and money to own a pass to a mountain and get enough time on snow where I could even begin to find skiing fixed healed skis boring and then have enough time to learn a new form of the sport.

The difference is that you can ski that untracked powder line the next time it snows. Last I knew, you couldn't reflower a nonvirgin.

Touche, touche.

...and the hookers in the windows in Amsterdam are nasty. I've been in Amsterdam a bunch o' times. It's not like you have to work very hard at it to get some for free.

Good to know, if I'm ever single again.

I hear ya and part of me digs what you are saying. But for me time is something I don't have a lot of so buying a pass and kickin ass for an hour makes me feel good. Like you said...different strokes

+1

Different strokes indeed. And trust me, fall line bump skiing is intense cardio.... Bump skiing really is not about variety, but rather perfecting technique (or at least trying to). That is an addiction in and of itself. Some people will never understand it.

We are about as polar opposite as they come I suspect.

+1

...women wearing fur coats and men wearing neon one piece ski suits..

I'd rather mingle with these people than with some primadonna with an ego large enough to demand only natural, virgin powder all the time, who has a general problem with the way others, who enjoy the same basic sport as he does, do things. If you can't connect with other skiers, many of whom I've found to be among the nicest, most friendly, most charitable-type souls in the world...that is a very sad thing.

...I won't claim to be some back country guy, but I have enough slack country experience in the Notch to know the quiet and remoteness of feeling like you're in a place completely void of development, like your statement of just harvesting natures bounty...natural experience. Love it.

This is a great point. We all see the allure of backcountry skiing. God, I should be so fortunate to be blessed with time and money and life circumstances that would give me the ability to become proficient in the type of skiing that JD enjoys, and to be able to take in all the comes with it.

But while I think we can all see the value in what JD does, unfortunately, he doesn't seem to possess the ability to look at those of us who are stuck with skiing lift-served terrain and appreciate that what we do has value, and is fun, unharmful, worthwhile venture...to me, is sad. For him to turn around and judge and look down upon those of us who are not as lucky as he is, but who still want to get out there and mix it up, slide on snow, laugh and drink some beers with friends (instead of sitting on the couch watching reruns, like so much of our country), that really really bothers me.

I love skiing with a good crew, enjoy skiing alone, but also equally enjoy engaging and interacting with others who may not be on my 'trip', but are loving life on snow just the same. I like riding the lift with the old retiree guy who I hope to be some day; seeing a trail of ankle biting youngsters chasing an instructor, laughing inside on the lift riding next to teenagers who think their the coolest evah knowing I thought the same way as a kid.

Exactly, exactly.

Most of all though, I ski, because it's just me and gravity. Manipulating gravity. Whether a groomed run, a bump run, out in the woods......I'm just flying down a hill....with my head blank.

Bingo. I believe if you are at peace with yourself, if you know who you are and are comfortable with your life, you can find that little nirvana, that cerebral blankness...doing just about anything on skis. It is NOT just reserved for those of us lucky enough to partake of pristine backcountry woods filled with virgin powder.


/very very sorry for the rant

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

Nice JayBigRed...JD is cool and he's one of a kind...anyway Long and time and short on money isn't a bad thing..I'd rather be long on time and long on money..

 

[billski]

Greg, you're quick, I edited it.
My resort experience turned me off. I've been attacked on the ski trail. I've watched old ladies be pushed over and nearly trampled in the rush for the first gondi car. I've seen fist fights on the line up over first trail, and I've endured countless lift rides listening to tools drop all the names of all the places they've skiies in an attempt to portray themselves a "real" skier. Yes, it jaded me. I decided to eliminate that aspect of skiing from my experience. Best thing I ever did for pure enjoyment of the activity. Reading Arc1's rant on skimrv brought it all back...and to me, THAT is why resorts suck. Not because everything get's bumped and fresh snow gets skiied off as fast as it falls, but because lift serve it up for the masses, and I don't want to hang out with the masses when I ski. It's my temple, and they are not allowed in...
Snob, maybe. Missing out????
Think not.
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I'm with JD on a lot of his mindset, but I'm still a resort-centric skier. I ski midweek most of the time nowdays. I'm lucky, life finally put me in a position to do so. By having that option, I've seen both sides of the resort-circus. I have always wandered from resort to resort. If I may generalize, the weekend crowd is vastly different from the weekday crowd. A lot of the vicious behavior I've seen is a direct consequence of overcrowding. Same behavior I see in general humanity. When you're in a large group, it's a sea of anonymity, allowing people to believe they can get away with anything with no consequence.

I spend as much time as I can hiking in the solitude of forests. But I plan my routes based on contrarian thinking. I'm looking to go where there are few people, like the cliffs in Warren.

Weekdays are a lot more pleasant at resorts. There are either the really laid-back types, in no hurry, or the serious-minded skier. There are hardly every any "show-offs" or adolescent type behavior and never any pushing and shoving. However, everyone has plenty of space to reach their own goals. Like I said in my Ragged report, it's almost like walking into a church.

I agree with you on your general characterization of behavior, and for those reason, I avoid weekends and holidays.

Being a naturally outgoing person, I'm apt to strike up a conversation with lots of different folks. Life is short, the planet is small, there are a lot of interesting people in this world. It gives me some connections. The people on weekdays are generally of like-mind with me, so we nearly always have something in common to discuss or appreciate. Not so much on the weekend.

Juxtapose that against my sometimes mood to be alone with nature. I often have my moods. For one, I'm not too social on a powder day. I'm just gone. I'm like a kid waiting for Santa to come. It happens not so often in our fickle northeast climate. Other times, I want a mellow day, other times I'm ready to be social and yet others I'm ready to rip up the groomers. Not all my friends are into all those things, so sometimes I'll just go alone, sometimes it's scheduling, there are a million reasons.. That's not to say I'm not adaptable and flexible, but I know my limits.

My barometer is called "fun factor". If I get to the end of the run, mountain, trail, whatever and I'm smiling, I'm enjoying myself. If not, time for a change.

I used to be strictly a groomer weekender, and had to do a long stretch of raising kids and staying on groomers. But some of it was just the hesitancy to stretch out of my self-imposed boundaries.

I've never enjoyed a densely populated trail. Too many accidents, too many injuries. High speed lifts just exacerbated the problem and it was what caused me to look to the woods and to weekdays. By doing this, I've been able to expand my skillset and move fairly comfortably across any terrain. I am not the most skilled or stylistic skier, but I'm competent and can have fun most anywhere.

The compromise is lift-served skiing. I've had to make is that my schedule is very demanding, not as much free time anymore, and I'm getting older, not as strong as I once was (wish I had started younger) and have recognized that older bones take much longer to heal. I love skiing and want to do everything I can to ensure I will be skiing the rest of my life.

The tranquility and peace of the woods is something I've enjoyed my whole life. I live in a rat-race and the forests are where I go to get re-connected. Being in the mountains, for me is part of my soul. Skiing is just one of many things I do to enjoy the solitude of the mountains. I'm certainly not gonna sit inside all winter and complain why I can't go hiking yet...

My $0.02.

 

[JD]

Hey JD, sort of a random question, but I'm curious. Why do you never head over to Mt. Washington?

No. I don't spring ski. The When it's time for tucks you can find me playing in the rivers of the green, whites, taconics, and berkshires. Pow only.

 

[JD]

I'd rather mingle with these people than with some primadonna with an ego large enough to demand only natural, virgin powder all the time, who has a general problem with the way others, who enjoy the same basic sport as he does, do things. If you can't connect with other skiers, many of whom I've found to be among the nicest, most friendly, most charitable-type souls in the world...that is a very sad thing.



Quote:
Originally Posted by deadheadskier
...I won't claim to be some back country guy, but I have enough slack country experience in the Notch to know the quiet and remoteness of feeling like you're in a place completely void of development, like your statement of just harvesting natures bounty...natural experience. Love it.

This is a great point. We all see the allure of backcountry skiing. God, I should be so fortunate to be blessed with time and money and life circumstances that would give me the ability to become proficient in the type of skiing that JD enjoys, and to be able to take in all the comes with it.

But while I think we can all see the value in what JD does, unfortunately, he doesn't seem to possess the ability to look at those of us who are stuck with skiing lift-served terrain and appreciate that what we do has value, and is fun, unharmful, worthwhile venture...to me, is sad. For him to turn around and judge and look down upon those of us who are not as lucky as he is, but who still want to get out there and mix it up, slide on snow, laugh and drink some beers with friends (instead of sitting on the couch watching reruns, like so much of our country), that really really bothers me.


Do you read? You make it sound like your "stuck" in the life you live. Guess what dude, I grew up where you live and it's not a hard thing to leave. You think I have an ego because I only want to ski good untracked snow....your problem. Nothing about my exsistance makes me a primadonna...I ski on used gear that people littereally consider garbage. I have stated in this thread that I appreciate every aspect of skiing and that fact that we can all find our own niche experience. I work my ass off to pay 12 months of bills on an 8 month economy so I can live here because to me it's worth it to put my skis on in my driveway and ski untracked snow. I am a very humble skiier and anyone who knows me can tell you. Hell, I won't even ski some lines becaue I know I am not good enough and would rather leave it for folks who can ski it well, not just survive it. You are obviously taking this way to seriously. Greg and I go back and forth all the time on this and we rib. If you cannot discern a bit of ball busting from ture sentiment then maybe you shouldn't start lobbing insults on a message board. You seem a little bitter about the fact that you are "stuck riding lift served terrrain", but insist that I have a huge ego because I am not stuck rinding lift served terrain. You make it sound like I am some trustfarian who bums around VT skiing powder..trust me, this is not true. I work until midnight and am up at 4 to get my turns in so I can make it back to work by noon for another 12 hour shift, 6 days a week. I have decided to not have kids yet because I put a large value on experienceing the out doors while I'm young enough to enjoy it....I've created the reality I live in, you've created yours. Please don't feel bad for me, and don't be sad. Just becaue I can't connect with you, doen't mean there aren't a lot of people up here who I call close close friends who have made the same choices I have made and work as hard as I do to afford to live here so we can enjoy the Mtns the way we want to, not the way a life built around other things allows. Please chill on the personal judgements, I could chuck a bunch of steritypes out about you, being from Jersey and knowing all about it. But i give you the benfit of the doubt for not being a all consuming douchbag, loud mouth Joey from the flat land, and the reason I hate resorts. Though your response of personal insults and judgements about my life could easily lead me down that road. I repect the fact that you give care to your grandfather and that prolly has you living where you live. I gave care to my grandfather while he was suffering from Altzheimer's while I was in highschool. Part of that experience shaped me and made me realize that you better get to living before you're dead. When those commitments are over, hopefully you can pursue a more fulfilling exsistance and not feel "stuck" in the one you're in. Peace. I hope you escape the reality you feel trapped in one day. It's not about being lucky enough to live here dude, it's a series of personal choices. Maybe you can move up here and practice enviornmental law, or mediate act 250 disputes...and we can meet at some random trail head where noone thinks there is any skiing, disappear into the pucker brush and just ski.

 

[Greg]

This thread is exhausting.











Spring bumps this weekend!

 

[JD]

I'll be working...

 

[prisnah]

What is it summer already? Talk about a heated thread.

I can see it from both of your viewpoints. Skiing doesn't have to mean any one single thing...it means different things to everyone at different times. Take the parts you enjoy and leave the rest..

That being said....I woulda jumped dude's line too.......Seriously, expecting someone to wait while 7-8 people dick around??? Not happening.

 

[jaywbigred]

Do you read? You make it sound like your "stuck" in the life you live. Guess what dude, I grew up where you live and it's not a hard thing to leave. You think I have an ego because I only want to ski good untracked snow....your problem. Nothing about my exsistance makes me a primadonna...I ski on used gear that people littereally consider garbage. I have stated in this thread that I appreciate every aspect of skiing and that fact that we can all find our own niche experience. I work my ass off to pay 12 months of bills on an 8 month economy so I can live here because to me it's worth it to put my skis on in my driveway and ski untracked snow. I am a very humble skiier and anyone who knows me can tell you. Hell, I won't even ski some lines becaue I know I am not good enough and would rather leave it for folks who can ski it well, not just survive it. You are obviously taking this way to seriously. Greg and I go back and forth all the time on this and we rib. If you cannot discern a bit of ball busting from ture sentiment then maybe you shouldn't start lobbing insults on a message board. You seem a little bitter about the fact that you are "stuck riding lift served terrrain", but insist that I have a huge ego because I am not stuck rinding lift served terrain. You make it sound like I am some trustfarian who bums around VT skiing powder..trust me, this is not true. I work until midnight and am up at 4 to get my turns in so I can make it back to work by noon for another 12 hour shift, 6 days a week. I have decided to not have kids yet because I put a large value on experienceing the out doors while I'm young enough to enjoy it....I've created the reality I live in,

you've created yours.

Completely false. I did not ask for this at all.

Please don't feel bad for me, and don't be sad. Just becaue I can't connect with you, doen't mean there aren't a lot of people up here who I call close close friends who have made the same choices I have made and work as hard as I do to afford to live here so we can enjoy the Mtns the way we want to, not the way a life built around other things allows. Please chill on the personal judgements, I could chuck a bunch of steritypes out about you, being from Jersey and knowing all about it. But i give you the benfit of the doubt for not being a all consuming douchbag, loud mouth Joey from the flat land, and the reason I hate resorts. Though your response of personal insults and judgements about my life could easily lead me down that road. I repect the fact that you give care to your grandfather and that prolly has you living where you live. I gave care to my grandfather while he was suffering from Altzheimer's while I was in highschool. Part of that experience shaped me and made me realize that you better get to living before you're dead. When those commitments are over, hopefully you can pursue a more fulfilling exsistance and not feel "stuck" in the one you're in. Peace. I hope you escape the reality you feel trapped in one day. It's not about being lucky enough to live here dude, it's a series of personal choices.

Dude...I think you need to re-read your posts. I found them to be extremely judgmental of those of us who enjoy skiing that is, in many aspects, different from the form of skiing you adhere too. I felt like I was being preached to, and told that what I do is valueless. You began by equating skiing bumps with banging a hooker. I thought this was funny, and tried to run with the metaphor, but you persisted with deriding the lift-served experience in a preachy way. I do not believe that resorts suck, I have never seen an old lady trampled, I have never seen a fist fight during line-up, and I believe there is plenty to enjoy in the lift served experience if you approach it with the right attitude.

I understood that you were busting balls, and I was trying to bust them back. I fully apologize for calling you a primadonna and saying you have a big ego. I don't know you at all, and it was completely wrong of me to make these statements. I did not mean it seriously, and I was simply trying to jab back after you made multiple statements that "people sucking...is a resort centric thing" and that people who strictly ski at resorts have a "sense of entitlement" and on and on.

I am stuck skiing list served terrain, in order to maximize my free time. I do take care of a 94 year old grandfather and a 25 year old bi-polar brother. They rely on me for physical, mental, emotional, and financial support. I cannot leave them, and I certainly could not relocate them to VT, NH, ME, CO, UT, WY, NM, CA, NV or any other place that I would LOVE to move to. They have a fragile, but, right now, effective support group here. I have delayed moving into my own place, getting married, and having children for their benefit.

In my opinion, you ARE lucky enough to be able to live up there and ski as much as you do. The "series of personal choices" I would have to make to do the same would include abandoning two people who need me to survive.

Maybe you can move up here and practice enviornmental law, or mediate act 250 disputes...and we can meet at some random trail head where noone thinks there is any skiing, disappear into the pucker brush and just ski.

I hope and pray that you are right about this. Until then, I will have to ride lifts. Please don't hate me for it.

 

[JD]

That being said....I woulda jumped dude's line too.......Seriously, expecting someone to wait while 7-8 people dick around??? Not happening.

No doubt.

 

[atkinson]

Resorts don't suck, especially the one in question here. I ski untracked almost every week of the season, from a lift. 4000 acres (on one side of the ridge) is huge and there simply isn't time enough to ski it all. I hike several times a week and appreciate the benefits of earn your turns skiing too. Many of my favorite tours starts at the front door.

No offense JD, but you just seem to have a thing for picking on certain areas, which is fine. To each their own. However, what exactly do you get out of this? Internet debates and web smackdowns? Oh joy. Save the energy for skiing.

John

 

[BigJay]

I always like this one:

Still, i enjoy taking a ride with both John and Dave even if they're "enemies" of the web...

Oh, and will it ever snow again?
:dunce:

 

[JD]

Resorts don't suck, especially the one in question here. I ski untracked almost every week of the season, from a lift. 4000 acres (on one side of the ridge) is huge and there simply isn't time enough to ski it all. I hike several times a week and appreciate the benefits of earn your turns skiing too. Many of my favorite tours starts at the front door.

No offense JD, but you just seem to have a thing for picking on certain areas, which is fine. To each their own. However, what exactly do you get out of this? Internet debates and web smackdowns? Oh joy. Save the energy for skiing.

John

I have only been to a few areas. The scene at Stowe sucks,(but the mtn is sick) the specific incident at Sugarbush that I posted here is pretty much retarted by all who commented on topic,(I haven't skiied the goods there but I know it's not the SBX lift line) MRG and J have always been great. John, you seem to have a thing for blindly loving a certain area...but I won't hold this against you, I love your pics. And Eric, you should know I don't have any enemies. I showed you and a bunch of french canadiens a shit load of locals only singletrack because you are passionate riders. Do you have any idea how much shit I caught for that? I just laugh it off. People take shit way to seriously, and themselves as well.

 

[atkinson]

Blind love? No way, my love has a very distinct vision. As such, I tend to be fairly critical of our challenges, I just work mainly behind the scenes to enact positive change.

My love knows no bounds either. As noted previously, I am a huge fan of MRG, Stowe, Jay, Smuggs, Burke, even the big K and Bolton, I just happen to work at the Bush. Mountains are mountains, and all of them are something special. It's usually a few random peeps that detract from the experience, but they are mainly easy to avoid.

And if you think you've caught a load of crap for showing a few folks around Northfield, imagine the silly bs I've caught for producing a map of the legal Valley trails and putting it on the internet.

Peace out.

John

 

[BigJay]

And Eric, you should know I don't have any enemies

I know... I ony meant it as you two are always debating on here... Debating on here doesn't make you "real life" ennemies... I can relate to that!

Do you have any idea how much shit I caught for that? I just laugh it off. People take shit way to seriously, and themselves as well.

I can assume... There is a huge struggle between the mtb advocates who want to legitimize it all... and those who want to keep trails to themselves in hopes of not loosing them... I favor showing trails to people and sharing the experience like you do.

Now, will it ever snow again?

 

[SIKSKIER]

Whew!Man,I need a nap now.