Winners for 2010-2011: Who to Watch This Summer

[thetrailboss]

Magic is definitely one who came out well and is one to watch. Thanks for reminding me. I imagine that their numbers are up substantially thanks to snow and the enthusiasm, in part from here!

 

[RustyGroomer]

Magic had an amazing year. I don't work there but can speak from experience. Best vibe & skiing in many years. Magic skiers are up to 137 chairs pledged for painting. Story here:

http://www.savemagicvermont.com/2011/05/126-chairs-pledged/

Sincere thanks to AZ'ers for the help.

 

[thetrailboss]

Magic had an amazing year. I don't work there but can speak from experience. Best vibe & skiing in many years. Magic skiers are up to 137 chairs pledged for painting. Story here:

http://www.savemagicvermont.com/2011/05/126-chairs-pledged/

Sincere thanks to AZ'ers for the help.

Thank you. Keep it coming!

 

[threecy]

I thought I read skier visits are significantly down at Waterville from years ago.

Indeed:
http://www.newenglandskihistory.com/NewHampshire/watervillevalley.php
1991: 300,000
2004: 175,000

From my selfish perspective I would like to see a HSQ to Tecumseh summit with 2000 vertical.

They ran the White Peaks HSQ to the top of the High Country originally - didn't work out too well due to the wind. The remaining towers from the truncation were just removed last year.

That said, the Sununus have hinted about the possibility of a gondola.

 

[speden]

After the Spillway disaster, Sugarloaf is expanding Brackett Basin into Phase II of that project and is putting in the new heavier and supposedly wind resistant Spillway Quad. Fingers crossed that those Doppelmayr Quad chairs weigh more than those old loaded Borvig double chairs. So what is next for the 'loaf?

I'm pretty sure the new lift will be a lot more wind resistant than the old Spillway. They are putting it so close to the ground that skiing under it will no longer be possible in places. To do that they are going to have a lot more towers than normal (19 I believe) so that a derailment on one tower won't let any chairs touch down. So the trees will block the wind for most of the ride up, and near the top where the trees aren't tall enough, they are planning to add wind fencing.

The thing to watch will be what do they follow it up with next summer. They are talking about replacing the Timberline lift with a faster lift and moving the base of it down to the Bulwinkle's lodge area. That would be a great improvement, and they could probably use the same wind hardening approach they are using with Spillway. But if the new Spillway lift is a big success, Boyne may think, "mission accomplished" and go back to neglecting Sugarloaf. That would be a real shame because the mountain could be something pretty special with continued investment. Hopefully they do get the buzz back with the new lift and Brackett, skier visits increase, and they decide to keep going with the big capital improvement projects.

There used to be talk of putting in a "signature lift" to replace the old gondola, but I don't think that would be worth the money or even make a lot of sense given the terrain. I'd rather see some lifts and a few winding, narrow trails added to Brackett over the next five years.

 

[deadheadskier]

I think for Waterville to really shine, they need a 50% increase in skiable acreage that includes some very well designed trails, not cookie cutter trails like Tippercanoe et al. To me, Waterville skis 'the smallest' of any 2000 vertical hill in New England. I don't hate the terrain like some folks do. I think it's got some good cruisers and I do think True Grit and Lower Bobby's can be great bump runs. It just gets boring pretty quickly. There are other areas of it's size and price that just have more to offer.

But physically, the mountain has loads of potential. The Valley itself is fantastic. I like the remote feeling of it all.

 

[cannonist]

I feel one advancement that Waterville could make is to increase their on map glades. There is a lot of potential for quality trails in between lower bobby's and exhibition. This could be as many as fifty acres.

Another piece of potential would be to add trails off the high country bowl into the techumseh bowl. If there was a lift that went from down near the side of the northside double all the way to the summit it would really reorganize the mountain into two specific bowls. This lift would also access some of the highest quality snowmaking trails on the mountain (Ruthies down to Tippecanoue) This might allow the mountain to remove the aging northside double. What I don't know is how this might affect the Techumseh hiking trail.

Any ideas?

 

[thetrailboss]

I feel one advancement that Waterville could make is to increase their on map glades. There is a lot of potential for quality trails in between lower bobby's and exhibition. This could be as many as fifty acres.

Another piece of potential would be to add trails off the high country bowl into the techumseh bowl. If there was a lift that went from down near the side of the northside double all the way to the summit it would really reorganize the mountain into two specific bowls. This lift would also access some of the highest quality snowmaking trails on the mountain (Ruthies down to Tippecanoue) This might allow the mountain to remove the aging northside double. What I don't know is how this might affect the Techumseh hiking trail.

Any ideas?

Nice!

 

[DoublePlanker]

I was referring to developing Tecumseh summit to skiers left where the hiking trail exists. Its listed on the new england ski history site as potential expansion that had approval at some point. The summit is the true summit (higher) of Tecumseh and not the current ski area summit. This is where I would like to see a top to bottom HSQ. The pitch is very nice there. Perfect for high speed cruising advanced trails + some expert glades. Fill in the bowl towards northside double with glades. It would be awesome!

Ideally they would have an old school cruiser like Burke East Bowl.

Call me crazy! But this doesn't hit the target market so I expect they would develop something like Loon South Mountain which isn't too bad just needs more glades.

 

[Angus]

Another piece of potential would be to add trails off the high country bowl into the techumseh bowl. What I don't know is how this might affect the Techumseh hiking trail.

Any ideas?

Well, the new trails in your picture are situated where the hiking trail is today. Not sure if that would fly. WV skis small b/c it's not a true 2K mtn. - more like 1.7K b/c that high country lift is never open - I've only skied there once in last 30 years but got bored quickly and basically lapped the sunnyside bump runs which were fun. I do hope the new ownership is successful - glades could be the answer but the area referenced in an earlier post is south facing right? And, WV doesn't get a ton of natural snow I think. Lot's of opinion for someone whose been there once in last 30 years!

 

[DoublePlanker]

http://www.newenglandskihistory.com/skiareaexpansions/NewHampshire/watervillevalley.php#mttecumseh

Do this expansion.

 

[cannonist]

There are quite a few complications with developing that bowl. First of all, there are quite a few major streams the create gullies, the pitch is not facing the direction it shows in that picture it would have to face the northside, and there is a sheer cliff wall and indent in between Waterville and Techumseh making a connection difficult (not impossible, but difficult)

I think the true potential for a major trail pod expansion would be towards Green Mt.

 

[Magog Fishy]

Waterville:
I know this is going to sound a bit silly, but Waterville did renovate their bathrooms in the last few years – always a good sign; they look real nice now. I stopped at Waterville on a Friday afternoon in early/mid April when they had one of their $1 days – was heading up to Burke for their closing weekend. I never went upstairs in the lodge to see if they had renovated anything there. I skied WV a lot in the early/mid 90’s, but have probably only been back three days in the last decade. I have never been crazy about the parking set-up there – not sure if there any way they could improve it; I know it is on a hill. I am not a big fan of the terrain, but I’m sure if would satisfy 75% of skiers – I agree with Deadhead that a 50% increase in skiable acreage would be a big help and yes the vertical does ski small; not sure if there is anything decent off map there, or sidecountry.

Saddleback:
Skied my first days at Saddleback this past winter. While I liked the mountain, I am not quite sure I understand their business plan. They have four proposed lifts on their trail map – I don’t know how they will ever be able to justify the ROI (unless these lifts would service some of the best terrain in New England) due to it’s remoteness from major metropolitan areas (although Sugarloaf somehow works) plus competing against the Loaf/River. Its seems Saddleback (and Mt. Abram) draws a lot of Mainers, which I do not believe in itself would be enough to justify the new lifts. I had a long conversation with a business owner in Rangeley, and she said they get very few Canadians – I was very surprised to hear this.

 

[threecy]

At this point, my guess is expansion to Mt. Tecumseh is not realistic. Even if they are somehow grandfathered into the rumored permits, my guess is the forest service wouldn't go along with the blasting that would be necessary to ski it (very cliffy near the Sosman-Tecumseh split).

From what I've heard, Green is the most realistic long term expansion.

One short term thing I've thought of would be to run a chair from the bottom of the Northside double up to the top of the High Country, thereby removing two older chairlifts, increasing the vertical of each pod by combining them, and in theory keep the lift out of the wind as much as possible.

 

[cannonist]

At this point, my guess is expansion to Mt. Tecumseh is not realistic. Even if they are somehow grandfathered into the rumored permits, my guess is the forest service wouldn't go along with the blasting that would be necessary to ski it (very cliffy near the Sosman-Tecumseh split).

From what I've heard, Green is the most realistic long term expansion.

One short term thing I've thought of would be to run a chair from the bottom of the Northside double up to the top of the High Country, thereby removing two older chairlifts, increasing the vertical of each pod by combining them, and in theory keep the lift out of the wind as much as possible.

Absolutely agree.

 

[Puck it]

At this point, my guess is expansion to Mt. Tecumseh is not realistic. Even if they are somehow grandfathered into the rumored permits, my guess is the forest service wouldn't go along with the blasting that would be necessary to ski it (very cliffy near the Sosman-Tecumseh split).

From what I've heard, Green is the most realistic long term expansion.

One short term thing I've thought of would be to run a chair from the bottom of the Northside double up to the top of the High Country, thereby removing two older chairlifts, increasing the vertical of each pod by combining them, and in theory keep the lift out of the wind as much as possible.

And make a Brackett Basin type area to skier's left from the top down.

 

[deadheadskier]

You know, I say that putting in glades at such a low snow area is pointless, but even last year during one of the worst snow years in a long time at Ragged, there were still glades to ski for a good six weeks of the season. I think the season snow total at Ragged last year was about 80 inches.

This year, Glades were open middle of January straight through to closing weekend. I'm guessing they got 150 inches, which I think is the average for Waterville. Granted we were blessed this season with only minor thaws.

 

[cannonist]

You know, I say that putting in glades at such a low snow area is pointless, but even last year during one of the worst snow years in a long time at Ragged, there were still glades to ski for a good six weeks of the season. I think the season snow total at Ragged last year was about 80 inches.

This year, Glades were open middle of January straight through to closing weekend. I'm guessing they got 150 inches, which I think is the average for Waterville. Granted we were blessed this season with only minor thaws.

Most of the glades at Waterville get very little skier traffic. They tend to hold snow better than other areas along 93 with higher snow totals.

 

[rockisland]

More Info on WV Expansion

Grant Application- USDOT Federal Transit Authority Grant
Bob Fries asks for the Selectmen’s support in applying for a federal grant up to 3 million dollars
for alternative transportation on federal land. He submits draft copies of the application for the
Selectmen’s review. The grant is for a gondola that would be constructed in the area of Town
Square and would be in conjunction with a multi phase project at the Ski Area including new ski
lifts and trails. The gondola ride would be 4,000ft long and would take about 4 minutes. A
private enterprise in not allowed to apply for the grant, so the Town would be responsible for
submitting the application. At which point, if selected for the grant, the Town would bestow the
monies to the Ski Resort. The Resort would own the lift, make up the difference in costs for the
project as well as maintain the lift at their own expense.

 

[Cannonball]

At this point, my guess is expansion to Mt. Tecumseh is not realistic. Even if they are somehow grandfathered into the rumored permits, my guess is the forest service wouldn't go along with the blasting that would be necessary to ski it (very cliffy near the Sosman-Tecumseh split).

From what I've heard, Green is the most realistic long term expansion.

One short term thing I've thought of would be to run a chair from the bottom of the Northside double up to the top of the High Country, thereby removing two older chairlifts, increasing the vertical of each pod by combining them, and in theory keep the lift out of the wind as much as possible.

I think what you mean to say is "run a multiple-peak lift from WV-across Loon-to Cannon and sell/rent the whole F'ing thing to the highest bidder."