Reality or marketing?

[VTKilarney]

VTDigger just ran an article on the slow start to the ski season. The article can be found here:
http://vtdigger.org/2016/01/10/warm-holiday-week-hits-ski-area-ticket-sales/

I've noticed with articles such as this that nobody wants to really state how bad things are. Business is usually "slightly off". But one quote struck me as very hard to believe. It was given by Parker Riehle, president of the industry group Ski Vermont. He said, "Eighty percent of the state’s skiable terrain was open at the end of December, a result of weather patterns “turning on a dime” and producing both natural snow and temperatures suitable for snowmaking, Riehle said. By the beginning of January, that figure was expected to hit 100 percent."

Was eighty percent really open by the end of December? That seems really hard to believe.

And isn't there a point where the marketing becomes such bullshit that you do more damage than good? It reminds me of an article that the organization released when things were at their worst in December saying that the warm, wet weather made for the best time possible for beginners to learn. Conditions aside, this completely ignored the fact that most ski areas at the time didn't even have their beginner terrain open - such as Killington's Snowshed.

 

[Warp Daddy]

"Marketing " is rapidly becoming schlock in many cases IMHO . It often sells the unsophisticated consumer the "sizzle " not the steak and frankly re-emphasizes the old nostrum of " caveat emptor"

Overly hyped bullshit trail counts , stretched reality on snow and or grooming conditions and podcasts are BEST checked either by web cam or known local contacts if u are fortunate to have them . Just sayin

 

[cdskier]

I find that 80% number very difficult to believe. As of the end of December, MRG and Magic weren't open at all. That's a decent number of acres right there not open. Killington wasn't at 50% by that point. Neither was Stowe, Okemo, Mt Snow, Stratton, Pico... The end of December was right around the time Sugarbush just started to bump their trail count up by opening some natural trails, but even for them Jan 5th was when they first hit around 65%. I can't think of a single resort that was at 80% by the end of December, never mind the state as a whole.

 

[Tin]

Depending on standpoint you can make numbers show whatever you want.

 

[SIKSKIER]

Depending on standpoint you can make numbers show whatever you want.

For sure and my beloved Cannon has fallen into that trap the last few years.Last week they had the "we have opened more trails than anybody else this week".Of course that amounted to about 30 acres when many others increased their acreage by 100.Total crap.

 

[Puck it]

Depending on standpoint you can make numbers show whatever you want.

So you are saying global warming data might be contrived?

 

[Tin]

For sure and my beloved Cannon has fallen into that trap the last few years.Last week they had the "we have opened more trails than anybody else this week".Of course that amounted to about 30 acres when many others increased their acreage by 100.Total crap.

My favorite line was "we have tripled our amount of open terrain in recent weeks".

So you are saying global warming data might be contrived?

Absolutely, from both sides.

 

[Puck it]

Absolutely, from both sides.

Damn Radicals!!!!!!

 

[Krikaya]

Let's be honest here. They're lying to us. That's all marketing is. Lies.

For example, yesterday I checked Attitash's website to see the spin they were putting on the conditions. You'd think from reading the crap on that report that we had been blessed by the snow gods. No mention was made anywhere that HEAVY rain was in the forecast. Other areas had closed for the day, Attitash was hyping their crap conditions. I wish I had copied the entire report. It was such complete bull$hit it was laughable.

Here's more from today's snow report:
It says, “Conditions for today will be machine groomed wet snow which will likely firm up as the temps drop to the mid 20’s, “

which means “once all the wet snow freezes, bring your ice skates 'cause this mountain will be unskiable”

Of course anyone who makes decisions based on what an area “reports” is a rube.

Remember this photo of Sugarbush's “scientific” method of determining snowfall totals with a maple sap bucket which probably measures 8 inches at the base and 12 inches at the top which magically transforms 6 inches of actual snowfall into 9plus inches in the snow report?

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/travel/destinations/ski/2010-01-29-ski-resort-snowfall-reports_N.htm

 

[dlague]

I cannot imagine that the skier visits thus far are that great. The Christmas break had to have been significantly weaker that years past. Yesterday did some damage and pretty much killed that day which is traditionally a low skier visit weekend in any case so maybe no big loss but there could not have been very many full fare skiers/snowboarders. This week will be a good recovery week which is needed but much of the effort will be on resurfacing existing trails that have coverage rather than trail expansion at least for the first couple days.

So whatever spin marketing, snow conditions and the like place report on the state of our slopes it is probably BS. Even today, the reports are not straight up by calling trails firm - even if they til the surface, it will get scraped off quickly!

 

[Puck it]

I cannot imagine that the skier visits thus far are that great. The Christmas break had to have been significantly weaker that years past. Yesterday did some damage and pretty much killed that day which is traditionally a low skier visit weekend in any case so maybe no big loss but there could not have been very many full fare skiers/snowboarders. This week will be a good recovery week which is needed but much of the effort will be on resurfacing existing trails that have coverage rather than trail expansion at least for the first couple days.

So whatever spin marketing, snow conditions and the like place report on the state of our slopes it is probably BS. Even today, the reports are not straight up by calling trails firm - even if they til the surface, it will get scraped off quickly!

This is the week I make the call to can the summit foe me. Not worth it.

 

[cdskier]

So whatever spin marketing, snow conditions and the like place report on the state of our slopes it is probably BS. Even today, the reports are not straight up by calling trails firm - even if they til the surface, it will get scraped off quickly!

Sugarbush is being relatively honest I think. In addition to saying things are firming up, they are saying they expect challenging conditions on all open terrain.

On a brighter note, I just looked at their webcams and it is snowing pretty hard up there right now.

 

[steamboat1]

The couple of condition reports I've read from this morning seemed pretty honest. Killington describing it as a flash freeze & Sugarbush describing conditions as challenging. By the way it's snowing pretty heavily at Sugarbush right now judging by their web cams.

edit: it appears cdskier & me were looking at the same thing.

 

[mister moose]

Was eighty percent really open by the end of December? That seems really hard to believe.

And isn't there a point where the marketing becomes such bullshit that you do more damage than good?

More like 80% of the areas were open, not 80% of terrain.

I checked the conditions report Saturday morning to see how southern New England areas were doing, and one area opening that day stated conditions were "packed powder". Seriously? You open on 100% man made, blowing base building wet gluck and you're going to call that packed powder? Packed powder is one of the most abused terms in the industry. Might as well replace it with "we're open".

In the industry's defense, I will say that many days I go out expecting to just punch the clock and get some exercise, and it turns out to be a pretty good day. Different people like different conditions. Some people even complain the fresh snow isn't packed down.

However, there are days that are truly miserable. Areas need to craft language that discourages novices and corduroy folks on those days. And of course the internet is a great leveling field for next day reports on forums like this.

 

[wtcobb]

Packed Powder = Firm Snow

Frozen Granular = Solid Ice

Variable Conditions = Rocks 'n shit

 

[VTKilarney]

Everyone expects that snow reports are overly optimistic, but I was shocked to see Ski Vermont claim that 80% of Vermont's terrain was open by the end of December. Snow reports are subjective, but percentage of terrain should not be. Even if you take glades out of the equation, there is no way that there was anything near 80% open. Did even a single mid-size or larger ski area have 80% open?

I'm no marketing expert, but I have to figure that treating your customers like fools is not the best marketing tool - especially in the internet era. Based on their press releases, it seems like their main thrust is to introduce people to skiing. If that is really the case, they should try to get beginners up to the mountains when they are likely to have the best time. Getting bodies heading north at any cost is short sighted at best.

 

[cdskier]

Snow reports are subjective, but percentage of terrain should not be. Even if you take glades out of the equation, there is no way that there was anything near 80% open. Did even a single mid-size or larger ski area have 80% open?

Agreed, by the end of the December I really think the highest percentage of terrain open at a single resort was no more than around 50%. I wouldn't be surprised if the overall number for the entire state was closer to only 30-40% at the end of December (even excluding glades).

 

[abc]

It was given by Parker Riehle, president of the industry group Ski Vermont. He said, "Eighty percent of the state’s skiable terrain was open at the end of December

Actually, individual mountain have more incentive to be honest, because they may not want to piss off their loyal customers. The president of the industry group however, has no real customers. So he can say whatever he wants as long as he FELT that's beneficial to his member mountains.

 

[slatham]

The quote "80% of terrain was opened" is an error - flat out wrong. He either misspoke or was misquoted. I can believe that 80% of VT ski area's were open. I could also believe that 80% of snowmaking terrain was open (though even this is a stretch). But 80% of terrain, NFW.

Sugarbush's reports are pretty accurate from my experience. Snow depth is always a challenge with such an elevation change, wind etc. Just recently they got flak for under reporting!

 

[VTKilarney]

I thought that maybe he was misquoted. But when you read all of the context, including the weather "turning on a dime", I really don't think that he was misquoted.