Anybody else hear this..........

[millerm277]

Perfect example of the MRG halo effect:

Look at the crap Tenney got a few weeks ago right here on this board for closing down. Now that MRG has done the same thing (this could quite possibly be for an entire season, especially given that they cant make snow), its a completely different story. Funny how with MRG its a "thats just the way it is, if you dont like it fine" where with Tenney it was the exact opposite.

Yes, but MRG was making an effort to stay open (and will obviously make an effort to re-open), if nature doesn't cooperate with them, then there's nothing we can do....

Also, I hope you remember that even Killington and all the other big resorts are having huge problems right now just keeping any terrain open.

Tenney is just closed...no effort to do anything as far as we can tell.

 

[ski_resort_observer]

The reason why Tenney is not open and the reason why MRG is not open couldn't be more diferent. One has nothing to do with the other. In hindsight it's looking that Tenney made a good decision, a real good decision.

 

[jimmer]

Gotta love it...

For once, I'd like to not see the following progressions on a thread:

Warm weather in winter -> global warming
MRG -> snowboard ban issue
Accident -> helmet argument
​

thats what this hole thing is about, i think.if it bothers you that much go read a book .

 

[AdironRider]

Of course there are differences between the two situations; however, the reality of the situation is really not that much different. Given that MRG has no desire to blow any snow, and given that there is no snow for a base at all right now, how concievable is it that given the current winter that they couldnt open, or the more likely situation that they do open, but without a base now for a much much shorter season than seen in previous years? Ill concede that while the coop might not feel it being a big deal, but this does nothing to help business .... period. They are going to lose money, probably a lot. Tenney claims they will reopen next season no? I realize that MRG intends to reopen this year, but either way they are closed with a claim to reopen. Key to this issue is their lack of snowmaking. Places like Jiminy will be able to rebound, but a natural place like MRG has the possibility of not.

 

[dmc]

Gotta love it...

For once, I'd like to not see the following progressions on a thread:

Warm weather in winter -> global warming
MRG -> snowboard ban issue
Accident -> helmet argument
​

Well... too bad...

 

[hammer]

Well... too bad...

I know I can't stop it...it's just so predictable...:roll:

 

[highpeaksdrifter]

Okay. I'll start.

I've only skied MRG once so I'm not qualified to speak much about the terrain, but the one time I did ski there, I definitely felt the vibe and enjoyed the terrain I skied. Do you not like MRG's terrain, HPD? I would think you'd be all over that.

Bucking all the trends that define the Northeast ski industry as it is today is what leads to MRG's uniqueness, and that's their biggest selling point. .

I've only been there once also and the conditions where not good, but it sure looked like it would be great with alot of snow. I'm no MRG hater, I'm just saying they get praise for things that other resorts would be criticized for.

They may be unique, but IMO in a backwards way, but as has been said before they don't care what outsiders think and I'm good with that.

If Northeast winters where to stay warmer and wetter (I hope not) they could end up like the Slides at Whiteface, they may not be open alot, but it's a great treat when they are. (Again I hope not, really, just food for thought.

 

[dmc]

I know I can't stop it...it's just so predictable...:roll:

I believe the pain that some feel overrides the predictableness of these topics...

 

[jack97]

I'm no MRG hater, I'm just saying they get praise for things that other resorts would be criticized for.

They may be unique, but IMO in a backwards way, but as has been said before they don't care what outsiders think and I'm good with that.

IMO, places that make their expectations don’t get criticized.

Places like Okemo and K-mart spend a lot of money on spreading the word that they have the largest snowmaking capacity with excellent grooming. Every season each will try to get the percentage of open trails as fast and high as they can. In addition, the amenities for a family or large group outing. If they advertise theses things and fall short, I can see why they get bad criticizism.

MRG makes other expectations. The contrarian view, is if they did add more snowmaking, groom out all their bumps trails, widen the trails for open groomers and expand/add extra things in the lodge for people who will only make a couple of runs for the day. They would be criticized from their devoted followers, again due to the expectations that has developed over the years.

 

[JimG.]

IMO, places that make their expectations don’t get criticized.

Places like Okemo and K-mart spend a lot of money on spreading the word that they have the largest snowmaking capacity with excellent grooming. Every season each will try to get the percentage of open trails as fast and high as they can. In addition, the amenities for a family or large group outing. If they advertise theses things and fall short, I can see why they get bad criticizism.

MRG makes other expectations. The contrarian view, is if they did add more snowmaking, groom out all their bumps trails, widen the trails for open groomers and expand/add extra things in the lodge for people who will only make a couple of runs for the day. They would be criticized from their devoted followers, again due to the expectations that has developed over the years.

In a nutshell:

The areas that have large infrastructure and snowmaking are soulless and McMountains. They are expensive and full of gapers. They have too much uphill capacity and are too crowded. They are to be hated.

The areas that shun modern ski technology and depend on Mother Nature are backwards and not run properly. The privately owned ones are the worst because they set their own rules regardless of industry sentiment. They have unpredictable snow conditions, no grooming, and antiquated lifts. They are to be hated.

A fine example of schizophrenia.

 

[AdironRider]

Lets not go so far to say every other mountain that has snowmaking and grooming are McMountains. I can think of several (Cannon, Jay, etc) that are far from McMountains.

This whole issue is not about what makes MRG great, but how they can concievably profit and exist as a business given the weather conditions of late. Im not one to perpetuate global warming, but if this becomes a trend similar to what HPD suggest with the slides, MRG is done for. You can say all you want about the coop, but theyre taking a hit this season, no business can run in the red forever.

 

[JimG.]

Lets not go so far to say every other mountain that has snowmaking and grooming are McMountains. I can think of several (Cannon, Jay, etc) that are far from McMountains.

This whole issue is not about what makes MRG great, but how they can concievably profit and exist as a business given the weather conditions of late. Im not one to perpetuate global warming, but if this becomes a trend similar to what HPD suggest with the slides, MRG is done for. You can say all you want about the coop, but theyre taking a hit this season, no business can run in the red forever.

I think you missed my point...my examples were broad generalizations.

And you still don't really understand the MRG coop...I think you have this image of the ski area waiting for day trippers to come up to the ticket window and plunk down money for a lift ticket. That's not MRG. Sure, they like to have that extra money, but they don't depend on it. They already collected their yearly dues from the shareholders, and the required season pass money from the shareholders. In their business model, they are more insulated from the weather than other resorts. Makes sense since they depend on the weather. And in that specific model, they are no more prone to failure due to the weather than any other ski resort.

MRG isn't going to go out of business because of 1 bad snow year. Ain't gonna happen. And I'll bet the shareholders are more than willing to sit out 2 or even 3 successive bad years before they drop out; they are a committed group and they'll stick it out to maintain the way they want the mountain run.

 

[Greg]

Lets not go so far to say every other mountain that has snowmaking and grooming are McMountains. I can think of several (Cannon, Jay, etc) that are far from McMountains.

Jim's post was made tongue-in-cheek. He's demonsrating the two extreme viewpoints.

This whole issue is not about what makes MRG great, but how they can concievably profit and exist as a business given the weather conditions of late. Im not one to perpetuate global warming, but if this becomes a trend similar to what HPD suggest with the slides, MRG is done for. You can say all you want about the coop, but theyre taking a hit this season, no business can run in the red forever.

Not sure how this and last season has been affecting them financially, but MRG is not in the red. Before the single chair project, they had no debt, and I'm not sure how their donation campaign is going. Perhaps an update, Eric? BTW, tons of info on MRG and some pretty forthright discussion of their financial siuation here:

http://skiing.alpinezone.com/articles/challenge/2004/response.htm?resort=madriver
http://skiing.alpinezone.com/articles/challenge/2005/response.htm?resort=madriver
http://skiing.alpinezone.com/articles/challenge/2006/response.htm?resort=madriver

 

[highpeaksdrifter]

In a nutshell:

The areas that have large infrastructure and snowmaking are soulless and McMountains. They are expensive and full of gapers. They have too much uphill capacity and are too crowded. They are to be hated.

Hunter has high speed lifts and has some of the best snowmaking in the Northeast. I wouldn't call it soulless or a McMountain.

I don't think you think it is either, but maybe I'm reading your post wrong.

They are to be hated.

Easy big guy, you seem a little angry.

 

[Greg]

Sheesh... Jim's post was just an example of the "Damned If You Do, Damned If You Don't" mentality...

 

[JimG.]

Sheesh... Jim's post was just an example of the "Damned If You Do, Damned If You Don't" mentality...

At least someone got it.

No anger here HPD, just trying to make a point.

 

[jack97]

Hunter has high speed lifts and has some of the best snowmaking in the Northeast. I wouldn't call it soulless or a McMountain.

Cannon, Wildcat and Ragged does have snowmaking and snow cats. IMO, they don’t overgroom and they still have some interesting trails (trails with character…. but that’s another thread).

I would say a Mcmountain would have the trails wide open for easy grooming and skiing. Get the cat going after a storm to pack down the snow, again for easy skiing (without the intent of protecting the surface condition).


Hyperbole…..my big word for the day. BTW, I got to make it to hunter, the recent vids look great.

 

[JimG.]

BTW, I got to make it to hunter, the recent vids look great.

Wait for some snow to fall so we can give you a proper tour.

 

[AdironRider]

I think you missed my point...my examples were broad generalizations.

And you still don't really understand the MRG coop...I think you have this image of the ski area waiting for day trippers to come up to the ticket window and plunk down money for a lift ticket. That's not MRG. Sure, they like to have that extra money, but they don't depend on it. They already collected their yearly dues from the shareholders, and the required season pass money from the shareholders. In their business model, they are more insulated from the weather than other resorts. Makes sense since they depend on the weather. And in that specific model, they are no more prone to failure due to the weather than any other ski resort.

MRG isn't going to go out of business because of 1 bad snow year. Ain't gonna happen. And I'll bet the shareholders are more than willing to sit out 2 or even 3 successive bad years before they drop out; they are a committed group and they'll stick it out to maintain the way they want the mountain run.

Im not saying after one year either, but the fact that you guys are trying to spin this off as no big deal just does further to illustrate the notion of the MRG halo effect.

I understand that MRG operates under its own unique circumstances, but after last years season ending early and this season not even starting, whats to say that next year isnt that 3rd year your talking about? Ill give you that they are commited, but they arent stupid. This is only costing them money. How much are they taking on with the new single chair? Cant be cheap. Hard to pay off those debts with noone on the hill giving revenue. I understand they arent like most and dont need the day tickets to stay open, but I doubt the majority of shareholders can just keep pissing money down the toilet for years on end. Again, not to say we have reached that state at all yet, but they are starting down that road.

 

[JimG.]

Im not saying after one year either, but the fact that you guys are trying to spin this off as no big deal just does further to illustrate the notion of the MRG halo effect.

I understand that MRG operates under its own unique circumstances, but after last years season ending early and this season not even starting, whats to say that next year isnt that 3rd year your talking about? Ill give you that they are commited, but they arent stupid. This is only costing them money.

Wow dude, I never said it isn't a big deal. They're closed for goodness sakes!

All I said was that their business model allows them to ride out these poor winters. And they aren't making money, but how is it costing them money? They don't blow much snow, so that isn't a big expense, they don't groom much, and they don't depend on day trippers or vacationers for the bulk of their revenue. They already collected the bulk of their revenue from the coop.

Quite the opposite, the big places that blow snow and watch it melt are the ones losing money.