Attn. Killington, Chris Danforth, Marketing Manager - RE: SPRING SKIING

[RENO]

Didn't Win Smith say on these boards that it cost him $800,000 for repairs at Sugarbush after Irene ?

Considering Killington had much more damage than Sugarbush that $500,000 figure seems rather low.

From what I've heard they had insurance covering the damaged areas so I can't imagine the umbrella bar cost much if anything...

 

[RENO]

Sugarbush has been changing the spring hours to 10-5 for several years already. It really is quite nice being able to either sleep a little longer or have a more leisurely breakfast.

and wait until the snow softens up a bit too. Would be nice if K did the same...

 

[mister moose]

Once they shrink down to just Superstar, I think "Midweek, we only open on sunny days" would be fine. If it's pissing liquid, below freezing and overcast with death crunch, or the hill is socked in, nobody shows up anyways. It's not like it takes a big staff to run one lift. They can close the base lodge and serve pre-made food at the umbrella bar.

We have yet to see a resort try "Sunny midweek days" whereas we have seen resorts go weekends only in late spring. The drivers to stay open - namely day ticket sales - just aren't going to be there mid week.

But as we've discussed before, the total revenue is far less, even on a weekend. It's easy to find justification not to remain open past late April. You have to want to do it, and so far, POWDR doesn't want to.

 

[Ski the Moguls]

My point is that it takes 3 people to operate one lift plus somebody to man the Umbrella Bar and sell day tickets from it. You need one sled dog. I'm quite confident that Killington has more than 5 full time employees to fill in for these roles.

And it's daylight savings time. The lifts should run 10-5 in April.

Don't forget ski patrol, and hopefully one of those folks is a lift mechanic, but I do agree with you that they could run very lean and profitable until the last of the snow melts.

Last Spring on their Facebook page, Killington said they would be switching to a 5pm closing earlier this year than they did last year. I think it would be great if the schedule change was made the day we Spring Ahead the clocks.

 

[steamboat1]

Last Spring on their Facebook page, Killington said they would be switching to a 5pm closing earlier this year than they did last year. I think it would be great if the schedule change was made the day we Spring Ahead the clocks.

I don't recall Killington ever switching to a 10-5 schedule...

 

[Ski the Moguls]

I don't recall Killington ever switching to a 10-5 schedule...

http://www.killingtonzone.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=32147

The thread is classic Kzone, but at least my posts to it were serious. Good reading.

 

[ScottySkis]

I had pass their when asc last year of ownership of K. It's nice to see the places like Steamboat and Mount Snow being run by better company now I believe.

 

[skiersleft]

Hey Nick.....Should've deleted the thread when you had a chance. It was pretty obvious that nothing good would come out of it and that it was going to morph into yet another sorry K = Fail thread.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Hey Nick.....Should've deleted the thread when you had a chance. It was pretty obvious that nothing good would come out of it and that it was going to morph into yet another sorry K = Fail thread.

Dunno about that, I've had a decent time lurking.

 

[Highway Star]

Dunno about that, I've had a decent time lurking.

Perhaps Danforth will forward this to Nyberg and some good will come of this?

 

[Highway Star]

BUMP.

Does anyone think it's acceptable that Bear is closing at the end of this month? ALL THE SNOW IS OVER THERE. They quite literally didn't make snow on Double Dipper so they could make a bunch of snow at Bear for the dew tour. Does it make any sense for them to close bear and keep the k-1 open......NO!

 

[ski_resort_observer]

If you want answers the man said to

In the future, please send your Killington related questions to info@killington.com so we can get you a quick response.

Please explain why you or anyone with questions appears to be unable to do this. I'm thinking about sending him an email asking him why people in here don't send him an email.

In addition to lifties, ski patrol, F&B and lift mechanics in case of an emergency, clean-up crew, maybe additional liabilty insurance expense, power to run the lift, ticket seller(tho most would be SP holders). Maybe they can set up a card table and get a woodchuck( the animal) to do it, an IT person in case the ticket system screws up. Someone to answer local and national 800 numbers. Heck, they can probably just have those calls go the cell of the guy/gal serving the beer under the umbrella or the person cleaning the bathrooms and taking care of the trash cans and the refuse from the tailgating. Can people come and rent skis? I guess you would need rental staff. Not all full-time people are salaried, some are hourly. Could be another additional expense. Taken individually each line item ain't all that much but when added all up it's alot more costly than some continue to think.

Didn't ASC bulldoze snow onto Superstar and stay open in May/June. It certainly didn't help their bottom line. Financally it's a loser. If they actually could make money or even just get enough positive PR I think Powdr would do it. By that time most of the market is into spring sports, couldn't care less about skiing in May.

Lastly, the man said "through the end of April", not, till the end of April which can be two entirely diferent terms, in PR speak. To me, that does leave the door open to extend into May if Powdr so chooses.

 

[skiur]

If you want answers the man said to

Please explain why you or anyone with questions appears to be unable to do this. I'm thinking about sending him an email asking him why people in here don't send him an email.

In addition to lifties, ski patrol, F&B and lift mechanics in case of an emergency, clean-up crew, maybe additional liabilty insurance expense, power to run the lift, ticket seller(tho most would be SP holders). Maybe they can set up a card table and get a woodchuck( the animal) to do it, an IT person in case the ticket system screws up. Someone to answer local and national 800 numbers. Heck, they can probably just have those calls go the cell of the guy/gal serving the beer under the umbrella or the person cleaning the bathrooms and taking care of the trash cans and the refuse from the tailgating. Can people come and rent skis? I guess you would need rental staff. Not all full-time people are salaried, some are hourly. Could be another additional expense. Taken individually each line item ain't all that much but when added all up it's alot more costly than some continue to think.

Didn't ASC bulldoze snow onto Superstar and stay open in May/June. It certainly didn't help their bottom line. Financally it's a loser. If they actually could make money or even just get enough positive PR I think Powdr would do it. By that time most of the market is into spring sports, couldn't care less about skiing in May.

Lastly, the man said "through the end of April", not, till the end of April which can be two entirely diferent terms, in PR speak. To me, that does leave the door open to extend into May if Powdr so chooses.

K never lost money running late into may, asc just sent the money elsewhere. Killington was one of the few resorts that always made a profit for ASC.

 

[oakapple]

I do agree with you that they could run very lean and profitable until the last of the snow melts.

I think it's very funny when people who have never operated a ski area in their life, state with such confidence when and how the mountain could be operated profitably.

The funny thing is that people accuse POWDR of being too bottom-line oriented, while at the same time, walking away from operations that are allegedly profitable. It seems that management is either too focused on profits or ignoring profits, whichever argument seems convenient that day.

 

[bobbutts]

I think it's very funny when people who have never operated a ski area in their life, state with such confidence when and how the mountain could be operated profitably.

The funny thing is that people accuse POWDR of being too bottom-line oriented, while at the same time, walking away from operations that are allegedly profitable. It seems that management is either too focused on profits or ignoring profits, whichever argument seems convenient that day.

Nice smug post.

Yes, some people argue one thing, others argue another. Sometimes a single person presents contradictory arguments. Is it really that funny to you?

 

[Ski the Moguls]

Nice smug post.

Yes, some people argue one thing, others argue another. Sometimes a single person presents contradictory arguments. Is it really that funny to you?

Oakapple keeps doing that. He seems to think that all companies make good decisions all the time, and he cannot understand why we do not agree.

 

[oakapple]

Oakapple keeps doing that. He seems to think that all companies make good decisions all the time. . . .

I don't believe that at all; otherwise, there would be no NELSAP list, and American Ski Company wouldn't have gone bankrupt. New Coke would have been a successful soft drink, Apple would still be selling the Lisa, and Ford would still be making the Edsel.

 

[mlkrgr]

I don't recall Killington ever switching to a 10-5 schedule...

I remember them going to 9:30 to 4:30 midweek and 9 to 4:30 weekends after the last weekend of March.

 

[Bubbartzky]

I think it's very funny when people who have never operated a ski area in their life, state with such confidence when and how the mountain could be operated profitably.

The funny thing is that people accuse POWDR of being too bottom-line oriented, while at the same time, walking away from operations that are allegedly profitable. It seems that management is either too focused on profits or ignoring profits, whichever argument seems convenient that day.

I think there's a wealth of experience among many of the long time Killington skiers, many of whom spoke regularly with Killington senior management and who, through those conversations, learned an awful lot about the economics of the business. And, there are an awful lot of people who know a lot more than Powdr about eastern skiing and marketing (something Jon Cumming doesn't really believe in) especially marketing in the east. All you have to do is go back to Powdr's first year here and review all the bad decisions they made, ignoring all the people telling them how bad those decisions were, and all the decisions they subsequently reversed. So, while few people here have had the opportunity (or bad luck) to have run a ski area, there's a lot of people who know how a lot more than you would expect among an average customer base.

 

[skiersleft]

I think there's a wealth of experience among many of the long time Killington skiers, many of whom spoke regularly with Killington senior management and who, through those conversations, learned an awful lot about the economics of the business. And, there are an awful lot of people who know a lot more than Powdr about eastern skiing and marketing (something Jon Cumming doesn't really believe in) especially marketing in the east. All you have to do is go back to Powdr's first year here and review all the bad decisions they made, ignoring all the people telling them how bad those decisions were, and all the decisions they subsequently reversed. So, while few people here have had the opportunity (or bad luck) to have run a ski area, there's a lot of people who know how a lot more than you would expect among an average customer base.

Yes. And if you want to talk to them, check out Kzone. They're all there.