Big Burke announcement

[kingdom-tele]

Exactly. I think that the "certain character" would be a good airplane manufacturer manager.

And, to sum up what's happened since the "certain character" came to town:

1. Citing cost, he laid off 4 senior managers--the mountain manager, the "inside" retail manager, the marketing director, and the HR manager. They collectively had several decades of service. Several other managers and staff were let go as well.

2. Quietly over the summer, a new logo was unveiled on FB that had "Burke" encircled by a "Q". After some negative feedback, the logo was changed again to a mountain with a bear and the word "Burke" encircled by a "Q". In an interview with WCAX, Ary said that the "Q" represented his family and their desire to make their mark.

3. Several thousands of dollars have been spent on new signs and logos on the property.

4. Over the summer, Ary learned of the agreement with KT to share revenue for lift-served biking and trail access fees. He initially said that he would not honor the agreement, despite it being in writing. He later decided to pay the $20,000, per the contract, but said that he would not agree to such an arrangement in 2014. That led to this firestorm, including an Email purportedly from him, in lower case, mocking the writer and even saying that:



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In a VTDigger article, Ary stated that cost was the issue and even implied that the previous President/manager entered into the contract while serving as a director with KT thus creating a conflict of interest.

We can also see the many issues with operations including those that oldtimer cited (no tickets at Mid-Burke, no Sherburne Express operating, forcing guests to eat brownbag lunches in the basement of Sherburne despite the main lodge area being empty, inadequate staffing for lifts, despite improved snowmaking a start one week later than usual, etc). I also think I read here that Ary was not going to offer season passes to staff to save money (this is a normal industry practice).

So overall, I'd say a pretty bad start.

And, as said, with many visible EB-5 fundraising efforts afoot for Jay, Burke, and the NEK, there is a lot of scrutiny about how well these related businesses are being run.

come on TB. dig deeper.

didn't see everyone banging their drum when Ginn built the yurt for the brown baggers, or re did the tamarack, again, or even form a lynch mob when they started hacking trails, etc. Pretty thin line you designed for these guys to walk, the place is in the red year after year, has the power to drive out the DEEEP pockets of Ginn and people are pissed someone is trying to save money, what exactly did you expect? They see the mt as hemorrhage until they get their infrastructure in place. It would be a pretty bad start too if a coop run hill couldn't afford Mc Snow(ala Magic, MRG), yet for some reason the expectations are they should just keep going on per usual when the usual was killing it. Inadequate staffing for lifts? Please, how many days have we skied there and its 3 people staring at each other while the other 3 people are skiing, if its with regard to the j bar, 99% of those riders are resting on the legs of Mom and Dad, maybe if you can't stand in front of a bar you should change your expectation level a notch or two. I'm not excited about the guy's lack of effort in communicating to us either, and obviously he doesn't have a way with words, but that is unlike everyone else in the NEK how? I suppose most NEK'rs just don't talk, so in that respect he is fitting right in. It's gonna a be a long 5 years if this is the reaction and level of disappointment people are gonna retain. Good luck.

 

[ScottySkis]

This is so not good just bad , ridiculous at all. It not a destination resort, and It sucks when your local place is being run by morons who don't get it. At least with social media it is a little harder for big business to make bad business decisions and still get bonuses and move on when the company or business fails, why should they care sorry rant over.

 

[nekmuffy]

come on TB. dig deeper.

didn't see everyone banging their drum when Ginn built the yurt for the brown baggers, or re did the tamarack, again, or even form a lynch mob when they started hacking trails, etc. Pretty thin line you designed for these guys to walk, the place is in the red year after year, has the power to drive out the DEEEP pockets of Ginn and people are pissed someone is trying to save money, what exactly did you expect? They see the mt as hemorrhage until they get their infrastructure in place. It would be a pretty bad start too if a coop run hill couldn't afford Mc Snow(ala Magic, MRG), yet for some reason the expectations are they should just keep going on per usual when the usual was killing it. Inadequate staffing for lifts? Please, how many days have we skied there and its 3 people staring at each other while the other 3 people are skiing, if its with regard to the j bar, 99% of those riders are resting on the legs of Mom and Dad, maybe if you can't stand in front of a bar you should change your expectation level a notch or two. I'm not excited about the guy's lack of effort in communicating to us either, and obviously he doesn't have a way with words, but that is unlike everyone else in the NEK how? I suppose most NEK'rs just don't talk, so in that respect he is fitting right in. It's gonna a be a long 5 years if this is the reaction and level of disappointment people are gonna retain. Good luck.

Whoa tele-dude. I don't think anyone expected business as usual. Once I again, I will state that we all want Burke to thrive. I actually haven't heard that much complaining about the hotel. Most folks who have worked in the ski area business, and that includes a lot of locals, understand what it will likely take to make Burke viable. As for Ginn...Some of us even thought the yurt was a kind of cool. And the tamarack actually celebrates the line of tamaracks on mtn road that represent a unique natural community. And Ginn employed a very competent general manager. The problem has been Ary. At first most folks thought and hoped he didn't have that much power... but he did (hopefully past tense). In addition there were many other examples of him attempting to take advantage of locals in other business. It is so ironic that he claims KT tried to take advantage of Burke Mountain. And I believe that what worries most of us is not the attempts to turn a business profitable but that arrogance and ignorance are certainly not the traits to make that happen. While many of us are thankful for the support of those from afar, it is worrisome that these folks are threatening not to come to our ski area where we work and hope to play for generations to come. So before you accuse us of cutting off our nose to spite our face, give us a little more credit. Ary needs to go. Sensible business practice does not.

 

[from_the_NEK]

Whoa tele-dude. I don't think anyone expected business as usual. Once I again, I will state that we all want Burke to thrive. I actually haven't heard that much complaining about the hotel. Most folks who have worked in the ski area business, and that includes a lot of locals, understand what it will likely take to make Burke viable. As for Ginn...Some of us even thought the yurt was a kind of cool. And the tamarack actually celebrates the line of tamaracks on mtn road that represent a unique natural community. And Ginn employed a very competent general manager. The problem has been Ary. At first most folks thought and hoped he didn't have that much power... but he did (hopefully past tense). In addition there were many other examples of him attempting to take advantage of locals in other business. It is so ironic that he claims KT tried to take advantage of Burke Mountain. And I believe that what worries most of us is not the attempts to turn a business profitable but that arrogance and ignorance are certainly not the traits to make that happen. While many of us are thankful for the support of those from afar, it is worrisome that these folks are threatening not to come to our ski area where we work and hope to play for generations to come. So before you accuse us of cutting off our nose to spite our face, give us a little more credit. Ary needs to go. Sensible business practice does not.

Well said!
Bill Stenger taking charge may not be the best solution, as he has his agenda, but it is a lot better scenario that what Ary has brought to the table.

 

[kingdom-tele]

Well said. With any luck he does move on and is replaced by someone who gets the community or at least seems to try to, or maybe he comes around. Either way, arrogance and ignorance is a two way street. The whole NEK project takes some level of arrogance don't you think? Where does it become beneficial arrogance vs harmful. While AQ ceretainly is displaying some deep levels of ignorance, how much do we know about the details of running any of these projects, certainly we assume some of the ignorance. The only way to combat that is through communication, adn if both parties are deciding to close their eyes and stick there fingers in their ears when the other speaks, who's more at fault? People will either come or not, just as the people who left Jay have been replaced with hockey tourney's and waterpark patrons, the people who leave burke will be replaced by indoor mt bikers, tennis teams, and diver's right? The sentiment that our region can change and remain the same all at once is a matter of perception, which is our own.

 

[oldtimer]

Tele- let us agree that they have gotten off to a rough start. I take your point that change is inevitable. It is also painfully obvious that this management team thinks operational losses are to be avoided at all costs. We have seen many outfits come in with big plans and throw down lots of $ in the first year or 2. Ginn redid the base, built lifts and had staff and volunteers as ski valets. Andy Holmes before them through lotsa dough into snow making (thank you Andy). But this crew seems to be either under-capitalized or have no vision that they are in a customer service business.

My concerns looking forward are not more people and the ugly hotels. My concerns are around keeping the hill running.

Supposing that they are not under-capitalized, if they waiting for the hotels and then plan to start a customer service charm offensive they are doomed to failure. Good reputations are made year in and year out- they are earned. Bad reputations can be made quickly and they are hard to undo. This is not a myth. There are countless B-school studies of companies that had been market leaders only to have failed after a bad CEO or some event that was not managed well. I am not sure where they think the guests to fill these beds are coming from, but they need to have a great product to have them come more than once. If they want a great product they need to start working on it NOW. If they are not prepared for operational losses to help build a brand how can they possibly expect hotels to help? In case you haven't noticed, there is a lot of competition out there. My friends don't flock to an area with a suspect product because they like the fact that the company scrapes out a break-even operational existence every year, or that management has figured out how to brow beat the staff into "doing more with less". They go because what is under foot is as good as it can be given the weather. They go because the staff is GENUINELY interested in providing good service (this requires that the staff feels valued). They go because the skiing product has the mix of terrain and safety that meets their needs. Building a brand takes time and money. If they do not invest in that (i.e. endure losses while building out the infrastructure) then there will be lotsa empty hotel rooms and the losses involved with those will make the 1/4 million a year Burke loses look like chump change.

Alternatively, perhaps this group is under-capitalized. If they play by the rules this doesn't change with EB-5 money.

In my long winded way, what I am trying to say is that I am not unhappy about a company trying to change the mountain to draw more visitors and to make it viable. "The man" coming in and upsetting the community to make a buck is not what the current posts are all about.

When Stenger and Q Sr stepped forward I thought they had a plan that seemed to make sense and apparently a group that had the resources to pull it off. In the cold light of day they are acting like another imposter. We all knew the ski valet's were not Burke. We also know going out of your way to antagonize the community, beating on the staff, and providing a terrible product is not a recipe for success. Our choice set is to stand by and watch the train wreck or say something. I have chosen the latter.

 

[kingdom-tele]

I can agree with all that OT. I sincerely hope it all gets better. I have unfortunately lost faith in the ideals our local business men are making reality. But realizing there is no stopping it your either left looking at the negatives at the expense of the real reasons a place means something to you, I have come to realize the infrastructure and money talk is as good as smoke and mirrors, the people, the place, the experience are above it all. I suppose I am only trying to inject a positive spin in what is aan otherwise sad turn events. I will stop as it has nothing to do with any of this.

Best of luck to the employees at Burke.

Happy Holidays and happy turns everyone.

 

[thetrailboss]

Tele--my focus was only on this regime and what OT and others had observed.

 

[thetrailboss]

Why is it so damn hard to just apologize?

 

[thetrailboss]

Sorry I can't get the text to work

 

[billski]

Why is it so damn hard to just apologize?

ego?

 

[billski]

Here you go

View attachment 9982

see? I'm good for something, maybe?

 

[Edd]

Here you go

View attachment 9982

see? I'm good for something, maybe?

Can't see whatever that is. I'm using the AZ app.

 

[thetrailboss]

Can't see whatever that is. I'm using the AZ app.

I could see the first part....it was what I was trying to post, which is an "apology" letter to the season passholders that turned into a sort of an apology, talking about how he was in the army and knows how to play with a team, how the mountain has failed the last 30 years, and more reasons why he was "right" in doing what he did. :blink: If someone can post it that would be great.

I think that plane factory needs him more.

 

[twinplanx]

Is there a link to the original message severing ties with Kingdom Trails somewhere? Lots of digging through a thread with almost 80 pages...

Sent from my SCH-S735C using Tapatalk

 

[thetrailboss]

Is there a link to the original message severing ties with Kingdom Trails somewhere? Lots of digging through a thread with almost 80 pages...

Sent from my SCH-S735C using Tapatalk

http://vtdigger.org/2013/12/18/burke-resort-cuts-ties-mountain-biking-trails-network/

 

[Zand]

I was curious how things were going up there expansion-wise for Christmas week, so I checked the snow report and they STILL only have ONE TRAIL open from the top. After one of the coldest Decembers in recent history at one of the coldest mountains in New England. WTF IS GOING ON UP THERE?!? I know their snowmaking is not THAT weak. Quiros needs to be driven out of town NOW... these operations are absolutely destroying the mountain.

 

[thetrailboss]

I was curious how things were going up there expansion-wise for Christmas week, so I checked the snow report and they STILL only have ONE TRAIL open from the top. After one of the coldest Decembers in recent history at one of the coldest mountains in New England. WTF IS GOING ON UP THERE?!? I know their snowmaking is not THAT weak. Quiros needs to be driven out of town NOW... these operations are absolutely destroying the mountain.

Can anyone up there confirm if they are making snow?

 

[twinplanx]

Can anyone up there confirm if they are making snow?

...and please feel free to share your kids ski school experience as well ;-)

Sent from my SCH-S735C using Tapatalk

 

[Boardguy]

We got here Thurs. night and I have not seen any snowmaking. Today was in the 30s. but the but Fri. and Sat. were colder. Maybe not cold enough but to my knowledge no guns going. The ski school appears to have been very busy with lots of lessons going on. Lots of little guys seeming to be having fun. I don't have children in ski school so can't comment on the experience. There sure are a lot of instuctors and students both in groups and private lessons out on the hill. The banked turn thingy off to the side of the top of the J-bar is very popular with the kids going through it. The J-bar is running again now too.