Bin Ladin dead!

[wa-loaf]

Jon Stewart pretty much nails it:
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-may-4-2011/face-off

 

[abc]

People with your mindset are what's wrong with this world.

You're naive.

You think the west got to be where it is by spreading love to our enemy (and NOT killing them) for centuries?

 

[dmc]

You're naive.

You think the west got to be where it is by spreading love to our enemy (and NOT killing them) for centuries?

Why does it have to be that way?

 

[drjeff]

Why does it have to be that way?

Because while we may be a "civilized" country, there's still a huge portion of the worldwide population that is living in a way more like the middle ages, if not the stone age, and to ask/expect/hope that they'll suddenly be able to "elevate" their ways to modern times, and then function that way longterm, is while a noble idea, not very realistic.

We didn't become a "civilized" country overnight ourselves, but are expecting others to do so

 

[dmc]

Because while we may be a "civilized" country, there's still a huge portion of the worldwide population that is living in a way more like the middle ages, if not the stone age, and to ask/expect/hope that they'll suddenly be able to "elevate" their ways to modern times, and then function that way longterm, is while a noble idea, not very realistic.

We didn't become a "civilized" country overnight ourselves, but are expecting others to do so

I don't think anything will be sudden.. nobodies going to flip a switch..
But I do sense that the "stoneage" is ending in the middle east.

And we can lead by showing that we are above such things...

 

[deadheadskier]

Couldn't they release a photo with the wound blacked out? I'm sure the lower half of his head will look plenty dead enough for all but the big time conspiracy theorists.

I'm just curious as to why showing Bin Laden dead will enrage the extremists that much more than telling them that he's dead.

 

[drjeff]

Couldn't they release a photo with the wound blacked out? I'm sure the lower half of his head will look plenty dead enough for all but the big time conspiracy theorists.

I'm just curious as to why showing Bin Laden dead will enrage the extremists that much more than telling them that he's dead.

Because more and more we're trying to be so politically correct and culturally sensitive that we've forgotten that sometimes progress requires things that aren't politically correct or culturally sensitive. It is a noble idea, but the harsh reality is that not everyone is capable of being so noble and those people tend to only respond to much less civilzed ways

 

[gmcunni]

what would be the benefit of releasing the photos? convincing some portion of the population who thinks the action taken/announcement/news coverage has all been a hoax that it all really did happened?

i disagree with Obama in that i think we've already spiked the football. releasing the photos would be more like doing an excessive end zone celebration?

 

[campgottagopee]

what would be the benefit of releasing the photos? convincing some portion of the population who thinks the action taken/announcement/news coverage has all been a hoax that it all really did happened?

i disagree with Obama in that i think we've already spiked the football. releasing the photos would be more like doing an excessive end zone celebration?

I agree, not sure what good would come out of releasing the photos.

If there ever was somebody I wouldn't mind seeing with their head blown off it would be that SOB.

 

[gmcunni]

i really don't like the "instant news" era we live in, specifically the almost guaranteed retraction or correction to the most scathing headline of the previous day (or hour).

in the car yesterday with the family driving to a wake for my wife's uncle (so death is already in everyone's thoughts) news of the OBL story comes back on the radio. my 12 YO daughter makes a comment about OBL using his wife as a human shield. she even said "well, what did she expect marrying a terrorist". but the latest "news" is it wasn't his wife and she wasn't used as a human shield. my daughter (though i explained that to her) won't remember the most recent news (i hesitate to call it truth) because it isn't as horrible.

 

[deadheadskier]

what would be the benefit of releasing the photos? convincing some portion of the population who thinks the action taken/announcement/news coverage has all been a hoax that it all really did happened?

i disagree with Obama in that i think we've already spiked the football. releasing the photos would be more like doing an excessive end zone celebration?

My comments below are not my opinion, more what I presume to be the feelings of those who really want to see the pictures.

I think there is a lot of mistrust towards our government, some justified, some not. The fact that the story of the operation has already been revised creates mistrust. "Bin Laden was armed and using a woman as a shield, no that's wrong, he wasn't armed, but he did put up resistance. Resistance how? That's classified"

Every Seal in the operation had video cameras on. The President watched how this went down live. So, how the story gets screwed up is a bit puzzling to many.

Ultimately, I don't care a heckuva a lot. If they published the photos, yes I would look at them. I'm anti-capital punishment in my views, so I would've rather he been captured and jailed. Didn't go down like that, so it is what it is.

Osama Bin Laden is responsible for the death of my college roommate. So, it does hit very close to home for me. Matt died on 9/11 which is my brothers birthday, and laid to rest on 9/22 my own birthday. Not saying it doesn't hit close to home for everyone, but losing a good friend or relative brings a bit more sting.

So with that, I've always wanted to see Bin Laden brought to justice for killing Matt. I'm fine with that justice being the words from the President. I can see how others want a bit more. I mean, when someone is given the death penalty, family members of the victim are allowed to view the person die. At the basic level, this isn't a whole lot different than that.

 

[mondeo]

You're naive.

You think the west got to be where it is by spreading love to our enemy (and NOT killing them) for centuries?

There's a difference between justice and revenge, though. Justice is an objective decision to take action against those that wrong others, in order to provide deterrence, reform the perpetrator, and protect the populace from further wrongs. Revenge is an emotional response to make someone feel good.

I think everyone is pretty much ok with Bin Laden dying in order to weaken a terrorist movement, where the only goal is to destabilise and kill. Taking joy because we got the guy who did 9/11 is a sentiment of revenge, and what I, and others, are against. It's the same sentiment that Bin Laden used to recruit the people that actually flew the planes, actually blew up the embassies in '98, actually attack soldiers in Iraq. The celebrations in the street and at sports events are fundamentally no different than Palestinians dancing in the streets after 9/11. It's a celebration of revenge against your enemy. The justness of the actual event are on completely different ends of the spectrum, but anyone that celebrates the death of an enemy isn't primarily concerned about justice.

 

[gmcunni]

Satellite-Linked Camera Feeds
Helmet-mounted cameras beamed live video from the front line back to American headquarters, enabling military and intelligence chiefs to closely monitor the operation, and giving them a first-person perspective from the safety of the Situation Room. President Obama and several key advisors witnessed real-time footage from the raid as he gave the order to SEAL Team 6 to move in.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011...-technologies-helped-bin-laden/#ixzz1LVI224O4

 

[deadheadskier]

Satellite-Linked Camera Feeds
Helmet-mounted cameras beamed live video from the front line back to American headquarters, enabling military and intelligence chiefs to closely monitor the operation, and giving them a first-person perspective from the safety of the Situation Room. President Obama and several key advisors witnessed real-time footage from the raid as he gave the order to SEAL Team 6 to move in.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011...-technologies-helped-bin-laden/#ixzz1LVI224O4

Which is why we shouldn't be seeing revisions like this

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/05/us/politics/05binladen.html?_r=1

 

[abc]

There's a difference between justice and revenge, though. Justice is an objective decision to take action against those that wrong others, in order to provide deterrence, reform the perpetrator, and protect the populace from further wrongs.

Revenge is an emotional response to make someone feel good.

I think everyone is pretty much ok with Bin Laden dying in order to weaken a terrorist movement, where the only goal is to destabilise and kill. Taking joy because we got the guy who did 9/11 is a sentiment of revenge, and what I, and others, are against. It's the same sentiment that Bin Laden used to recruit the people that actually flew the planes, actually blew up the embassies in '98, actually attack soldiers in Iraq. The celebrations in the street and at sports events are fundamentally no different than Palestinians dancing in the streets after 9/11. It's a celebration of revenge against your enemy. The justness of the actual event are on completely different ends of the spectrum, but anyone that celebrates the death of an enemy isn't primarily concerned about justice.

I do get your point but I'm not entirely convince revenge is the ONLY thing that makes someone feel good.

On the same vain, I don't share the view the celebration the Palestinians had after 9/11 was of revenge. It's a war between the two groups. It's a celebration of their "success" in showing their strength. And the same "success" when we got Bin Laden.

I feel too many people put too much weight on the individual called Bin Laden. I, and many like me, don't think of him in a human term. He doesn't deserve that. But he's however a symbol of the terrorist. So his death isn't so much his life coming to an end, it's a symbol we are getting an upper hand (at this short moment, that is).

When Bin Laden gave up his comfortable life and dedicated it to Islamic terrorism, he ceased to be an individual. His death is equally un-human. As far as he's concern, he's becoming a martyr. Same with all the suicide killers. The sooner we accept the non-human nature of it, the better will can deal with them.

 

[dmc]

Key advisors are not trained in interpreting what was displayed on the screens..

 

[mondeo]

Key advisors are not trained in interpreting what was displayed on the screens..

Plus I'm guessing it all happened in about 5-10 minutes. For someone not trained in urban assault, it probably happened very fast. The initial opposing gunfire coupled with a decent amount of gunfire on multiple screens from the SEALs could pretty easily confuse someone not used to combat. Also, the whole unarmed thing is a bit of a stretch. Just because the people killed weren't aiming an AK-47 or Glock at the SEALs doesn't mean they weren't dangerous or submissive. I read one report that said OBL was within a couple steps of a couple guns. Not quite harmless.

Also,

 

[ctenidae]

I like that graphic. Excellent.

 

[dmc]

Plus I'm guessing it all happened in about 5-10 minutes. For someone not trained in urban assault, it probably happened very fast. The initial opposing gunfire coupled with a decent amount of gunfire on multiple screens from the SEALs could pretty easily confuse someone not used to combat. Also, the whole unarmed thing is a bit of a stretch. Just because the people killed weren't aiming an AK-47 or Glock at the SEALs doesn't mean they weren't dangerous or submissive. I read one report that said OBL was within a couple steps of a couple guns. Not quite harmless.

All too familiar with AK-47s after skiing in Kashmir... seriously.. Everyone was carrying one..

the thing about bi Laden is - he didn't think twice about murdering thousands and sent many people to their deaths with bombs strapped to their waist..
If i saw him from across the room - i'd take him out too.. Not telling what he'd do..

I JUST heard on the radio that he appeared afraid.. That makes me happy that his last moments were terror.. I think he was just a spoiled rich kid that had a grudge.. And when they chips were down - he pussed...

Think about all his speeches and stuff - it's all about $$$$.. How he hurt us financially, etc... He was just a rich brat...

 

[campgottagopee]

All too familiar with AK-47s after skiing in Kashmir... seriously.. Everyone was carrying one..

the thing about bi Laden is - he didn't think twice about murdering thousands and sent many people to their deaths with bombs strapped to their waist..
If i saw him from across the room - i'd take him out too.. Not telling what he'd do..

I JUST heard on the radio that he appeared afraid.. That makes me happy that his last moments were terror.. I think he was just a spoiled rich kid that had a grudge.. And when they chips were down - he pussed...

Think about all his speeches and stuff - it's all about $$$$.. How he hurt us financially, etc... He was just a rich brat...

That, and I hope one of those badass SEAL's kicked him right in the junk