Burke Announces Multi million dollar capital improvement plan for this year

[thetrailboss]

I have to try and make it up there with some of you guys this year! :beer:

Yes, sir, especially if I'm a Burke Ambassador or a regular passholder! :beer:

 

[highpeaksdrifter]

I have to try and make it up there with some of you guys this year! :beer:

Yes, sir, especially if I'm a Burke Ambassador! :beer:

What are the duties of an Amdassador at Burke?
What are the perks?

 

[thetrailboss]

I have to try and make it up there with some of you guys this year! :beer:

Yes, sir, especially if I'm a Burke Ambassador! :beer:

What are the duties of an Amdassador at Burke?
What are the perks?

In the process of finding out...shheesshhh...

 

[highpeaksdrifter]

I have to try and make it up there with some of you guys this year! :beer:

Yes, sir, especially if I'm a Burke Ambassador! :beer:

What are the duties of an Amdassador at Burke?
What are the perks?

In the process of finding out...shheesshhh...

Sorry, I was just curious with how Burke compares to the deal we have at Whiteface.

 

[thetrailboss]

Sorry, I was just curious with how Burke compares to the deal we have at Whiteface.

What is that deal? Maybe a PM might be a good idea :wink:

 

[highpeaksdrifter]

It's on the way.

 

[Tyrolean_skier]

Thanks everyone for the great responses to my questions. I am thinking of making the trip to ski this mountain in the near future.

 

[Vortex]

I'm just a boring wide turns guy, but I popped into the woods here. I had a blast. I liked the wide open groomers. This place allowed my favorite ski term relevant. ( Hero Snow) I guess my pont is RivercOil found the trees and bump runs that made him happy and I found some steep trails I could make turns on. No crowds and a great vibe.

 

[thetrailboss]

My thanks to Smootharc who sent me the article that appeared in the Vermont Property Owners Report on Burke. To paraphrase the article, it states basically what we know...Burke 2000 has been in negotiation with someone, and the rumors/evidence points to Ginn.

One rumor making the rounds is that Ginn has plans to build a large, possibly "gated" community, with homes costing as much as $700,000 on land close to the Burke ski area. Such a development would be a big change for Burke, which has a low-key atmosphere and a limited amount of development near the ski area.

So that part of the article put a pricetag on the homes that might be in the works. My local connections said that the development would probably hit local opposition (not dissimiliar from that of the windfarms).

It also mentions the recent Powderhorn Condo expansion and mentions that the final four units are under construction and are already sold.

The article goes on to give details on the Haystack, Killington/Pico, and Okemo work.

 

[Tin Woodsman]

So that part of the article put a pricetag on the homes that might be in the works. My local connections said that the development would probably hit local opposition (not dissimiliar from that of the windfarms).

Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face. If all that Ginn is planning to do is build a bunch of expensive slopeside homes, I'm not sure why people would be opposed. At the end of the day, BMA won't be able to own and operate Burke indefinitely. They simply don't have the resources to invest in the mountain that would enable it to compete with its better financed rivals. As much as people want to deny it, for the vast majority of ski areas (read: those that don't rely on snowmaking), real-estate is what makes the money.

If Ginn can afford to invest in and operate Burke based on a subsidy from its profitable real estate, I don't understand what the problem is. If Ginnn were going to jack up ticket prices and limit ticket sales in an attempt to make Burke some sirt of gated community, that would be one thing. But I don't see any evidence of that being their plan.

 

[riverc0il]

people are PISSED up here about recent tax increases for property. that type of development would likely increase property values even more i would guess? definitely would run into local opposition. the flip side is the development and new homes would put money into the pocket of local business. seems like this is a popular back and forth arguement up here.

Tin Woodsman lays down some science. if a gated community is independant of the ski area and burke remains unchanged except being more financially stable with better lifts and snow making, i think everyone, including skiers and burke's long term success, wins.

 

[deadheadskier]

what are the oppotunities to expansion to the skiers left from the summit. I was looking at the ariel photo in the other thread and man, looks like some great pitch there. I'm sure there's plentyo back country routes already being utilized.

note to self...


MUST SKI BURKE this winter

 

[riverc0il]

deadheadskier, that was discussed in a previous topic regarding old ski maps. do a search. there already are some great glades that dump out skiers left, great terrain.

 

[deadheadskier]

deadheadskier, that was discussed in a previous topic regarding old ski maps. do a search. there already are some great glades that dump out skiers left, great terrain.

my posts - 79

your posts - 1200something

sorry I hadn't read or searched it out before and missed something that had been talked about. I haven't spend as much time in these forums as you have. It was simply a question from someone who knows very little about Burke, having never skied there. I saw the Arial photo in the other post, got excited and asked a question.

Why not just answer my question with what you know, instead of suggesting I do a search?

I can promise you I know more about Stowe's terrain than pretty much anyone on these boards. If someone who has never skied there posted a question, I'd answer it with what I know, not suggest I do a search because that particular topic had already been discussed.

 

[riverc0il]

my response was probably a little too blunt which i do apologize for but let me explain. it was a recent post, within the past two weeks actually. i would not have suggested a search had the subject not been discussed so recently. so i suggested searching because the topic already came up very recently on this forum (while you were a member i might add). i did not answer your questions because i know nothing about the once proposed expansion but remember reading it on this site. also, i didn't feel like doing the search myself when it was readily available to any one looking for the information.

any ways, i decided to find it for you any ways. it's in this very thread on page #4 & #5..........

 

[thetrailboss]

Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face. If all that Ginn is planning to do is build a bunch of expensive slopeside homes, I'm not sure why people would be opposed. At the end of the day, BMA won't be able to own and operate Burke indefinitely. They simply don't have the resources to invest in the mountain that would enable it to compete with its better financed rivals. As much as people want to deny it, for the vast majority of ski areas (read: those that don't rely on snowmaking), real-estate is what makes the money.

If Ginn can afford to invest in and operate Burke based on a subsidy from its profitable real estate, I don't understand what the problem is. If Ginnn were going to jack up ticket prices and limit ticket sales in an attempt to make Burke some sirt of gated community, that would be one thing. But I don't see any evidence of that being their plan.

Just to respond to this and riverc0il's points...from being a native, I can tell you that like other parts of VT, the political and social climate is a bit more complex...

As you know, we have two large groups--the natives and the folks who have relocated.

The natives, by and large, are not wealthy and live on family land or have familial ties to the area. They work hard, are friendly, and we can be a bit cynical :wink: Many locals, particularly business folk, are envious of the development and economic boom that is happening in Littleton, NH. In fact, the NEK is more like NH politically than the rest of VT. So many locals want to see development for the jobs and good livings but they don't want to see an influx of other people (the cynical side) or want to see the area change too much. In their view, more outsiders means more demands on town governments that are stretched too thin as well as controversies regarding how things 'should be done' :roll: So in sum, the locals would want to see Burke succeed and grow, just as long as their is economic benefits without too much traffic or dramatic change :wink:

Now the recently relocated folk, who are comically dubbed things such as "flatlanders," or "implants" usually are against ANY kind of development because it will sully their views of the hills. They are usually folks who are pretty well-off and have come up to retire or have a second home. They DON'T need an income or work, so they are not as concerned about the economic opportunities. They have an image of the NEK as a bucolic rural escape and whenever someone proposes a change to that view they use every means possible to halt it. They see living up in the NEK as "cheap" because they bring money from other places (and as a result when they tell their friends of their new home, more people will come up and push up the prices on homes thus pricing many locals out...but that's another story). Even though many of these folks claim to be "open minded," many can't understand the locals or their lifestyles and thus create animosity. The NEK is a place where, by and large, things are still done on a volunteer basis. There is only one or two professional fire departments and policing is thin because the area is so geographically large. When things need to be done, locals band together and get it done which contrasts to other parts of the country where the attitude is "get out the checkbook and pay someone else to do it." So to sum, outsiders are OPPOSED to any development and want things to remain "a pretty haven," they demand more public services, and they have a hard time getting along with the natives who are struggling to make ends meet (on on average income of $15-25k per person...poorest part of VT).

So, somehow Burke must appease both camps. The current regime has realized what many others did not...the locals are an important part of the mountain because when the weekend forecast mentions MAYBE rain on one night, the big-shots in Boston and NYC will cancel their trips up while locals will jump at the chance to ski on any Sunday. Thus, there are many good local promotions at the mountain and it has remained fairly accessible. The management has listened to the wishes of local skiers and riders (instead of building Bavarian Castles).

Burke needs infrastructure changes, no doubt. But both camps don't want to see the terrain, character, or the people of Burke change. The one way to do that would be a partnership between Burke 2000 and Ginn that allows for improvements to the ski area, which is run by Burke 2000, while Ginn focuses on their real estate ventures on the mountain. There has been some thought that this might be the direction that the mountain is heading (as evidenced by Gwatkin's term, "partnership" in the AZ challenge), but at the very least, Burke management has expressed to the future buyer(s) its hopes that the mountain remain accessible to the local communities at its base.

 

[highpeaksdrifter]

deadheadskier, that was discussed in a previous topic regarding old ski maps. do a search. there already are some great glades that dump out skiers left, great terrain.

I can promise you I know more about Stowe's terrain than pretty much anyone on these boards. .

and great terrain it is. It's always kinda supprised me how little run Stowe gets in AZ. Everybody is always talking da Bush, but hardly ever Stowe.

 

[riverc0il]

i can't speak for the others, but stowe is outta my price range. i still think $50 is too expensive though. a lot of people love to rag on stratton, but i think stowe is second highest in new england for lift tickets. then again, i also don't ski da bush often because it is also rather pricey. i'll be earning turns at stowe no doubt though.

back on topic though, da boss paints the picture well. though i honestly haven't seen much animosity between imports and natives, being an "import" myself. though there may be other reasons for that. suffice to say, it's easy to sum up: the locals are all for anything that keeps the area quintisentially theirs while also increasing economic opportunity. i was first really nurvous when i heard about the burke development, but now i can foresee an ideal solution in which everyone comes up happy. hopefully burke and the development company and all involved are thinking upon those lines.

 

[thetrailboss]

deadheadskier, that was discussed in a previous topic regarding old ski maps. do a search. there already are some great glades that dump out skiers left, great terrain.

I can promise you I know more about Stowe's terrain than pretty much anyone on these boards. .

and great terrain it is. It's always kinda supprised me how little run Stowe gets in AZ. Everybody is always talking da Bush, but hardly ever Stowe.

Yes, if you can afford Stowe, then ski there. :wink: A lot of the folks who frequent there don't partake in things such as AZ.
It's an incredible place from what I've seen and I've heard lots of good things regarding their terrain, but at $67 a day, that's TWO weekdays at Burke and Jay.

 

[highpeaksdrifter]

deadheadskier, that was discussed in a previous topic regarding old ski maps. do a search. there already are some great glades that dump out skiers left, great terrain.

I can promise you I know more about Stowe's terrain than pretty much anyone on these boards. .

and great terrain it is. It's always kinda supprised me how little run Stowe gets in AZ. Everybody is always talking da Bush, but hardly ever Stowe.

Yes, if you can afford Stowe, then ski there. :wink: A lot of the folks who frequent there don't partake in things such as AZ.
It's an incredible place from what I've seen and I've heard lots of good things regarding their terrain, but at $67 a day, that's TWO weekdays at Burke and Jay.

I was wondering in writing about Sugarbush v. Stowe. Lift tickets and season passes seem comparablely priced at both Sugarbush and Stowe. There seems to be a lot of Azers who ski SB all the time and Stowe is rarely mentioned.