Burke submits act 250 application for new Lift

[thetrailboss]

This shows just how much lower the new lift terminal will be.

http://www.anr.state.vt.us/Imaging/Planning/7C0206-13-1/Overall%20Site%20Plan.pdf

It will sit right where the old T-Bar used to sit before 1978 or so. Back to the future!

 

[riverc0il]

This shows just how much lower the new lift terminal will be.

http://www.anr.state.vt.us/Imaging/Planning/7C0206-13-1/Overall%20Site%20Plan.pdf

It will sit right where the old T-Bar used to sit before 1978 or so. Back to the future!

WOW! LOOK AT ALL THAT YELLOW ON THE TRAIL EDGES! :blink::smash::evil:

Lots of gladed terrain being destroyed in that plan. :-x Look at #17! Destroying a CLASSIC! Carriage Road and Upper Dougs get anything from a 4-6x width increase and that dumps into a double glade destroying super trail. Doug's (already pretty wide) gets a doubling of the width.

Maybe I didn't look at the previously posted plans close enough. This is shocking and appauling. The proposed trail widening and additions on this plan (on the main mountain, not even looking at East Bowl and its related glades) are enough to dramatically and drastically change the character of the mountain. Get to Burke ASAP before they can put this entire plan into action.

uke:

 

[Nick]

What were those drawings done in?

I'm learning a lot here, never even knew what ACT250 was before this thread & wikipedia

 

[thetrailboss]

WOW! LOOK AT ALL THAT YELLOW ON THE TRAIL EDGES! :blink::smash::evil:

Lots of gladed terrain being destroyed in that plan. :-x Look at #17! Destroying a CLASSIC! Carriage Road and Upper Dougs get anything from a 4-6x width increase and that dumps into a double glade destroying super trail. Doug's (already pretty wide) gets a doubling of the width.

Maybe I didn't look at the previously posted plans close enough. This is shocking and appauling. The proposed trail widening and additions on this plan (on the main mountain, not even looking at East Bowl and its related glades) are enough to dramatically and drastically change the character of the mountain. Get to Burke ASAP before they can put this entire plan into action.

uke:

My understanding is that this year they are only installing the lift (blue cuts) and regrading Upper Dipper where it is in bright green. This is good because this is a very rough section of trail that Northern Star did not quite finish/grade off, so it requires a lot of snowmaking to cover. I also am less than thrilled with the huge cuts that are proposed.

 

[from_the_NEK]

This shows just how much lower the new lift terminal will be.

http://www.anr.state.vt.us/Imaging/Planning/7C0206-13-1/Overall%20Site%20Plan.pdf

It will sit right where the old T-Bar used to sit before 1978 or so. Back to the future!

That is way farther down than I was expecting . I was thought they were still planning to start the lift in the Mid-Burke parking lot.

Maybe I didn't look at the previously posted plans close enough. This is shocking and appauling. The proposed trail widening and additions on this plan (on the main mountain, not even looking at East Bowl and its related glades) are enough to dramatically and drastically change the character of the mountain. Get to Burke ASAP before they can put this entire plan into action.

The previously posted plan had all of that crap on it. I think they had to include it in this "plan revision". I'm not so sure that will ever all happen (at least I hope not!). I would be one of the first people chaining myself to a skidder if they ever went forward with that trail widening plan.
For the HSQ installation the only trees taken out will be the area colored blue. Which looks to be fairly minimal.

 

[thetrailboss]

I also find the length and location interesting. I think it is very low, but it also helps them bring the High Meadows and Mountain Brook Condos closer to the action once again and uses that empty field. It also makes sense considering that traffic from Sherburne need to access it by going around the pond and across Dashney Mile, by the snowmaking plant, and to the lift base. The lift will climb over the parking lot, which will be interesting. Don't drop your poles on my car! :lol:

The lift appears to top out right on the Toll Road at the summit knoll just above the summit parking lot, so traffic will be going down off of that stretch of the Toll Road (where it now goes up) to the west side trails.

Also note that the section of Upper Dipper in bright green is going to be regraded and finished so that the rocks and junk are covered. This means it will open a lot sooner with less snowmaking.

 

[from_the_NEK]

I also find the length and location interesting. I think it is very low, but it also helps them bring the High Meadows and Mountain Brook Condos closer to the action once again and uses that empty field. It also makes sense considering that traffic from Sherburne need to access it by going around the pond and across Dashney Mile, by the snowmaking plant, and to the lift base.

Looking at the contours in the area below the pond, getting across to the new lift base is going to be difficult no matter where they do it. IMHO the best solution is to keep with the original plan to go under the Willoughby Quad and cut/grade a traverse between the pond and the MidBurke lodge that funnels down to the new lift. Joe and Jane public are not going to want to ski up any hills. :smile:

The lift will climb over the parking lot, which will be interesting. Don't drop your poles on my car! :lol:

According to Schedule B - page 2; 1 acre of parking area is going to be converted into grass covered ski slope. The only saving grace here I will be able to ski to the lift from the overflow lots. I having a feeling parking is going to be an issue on 'busy" days for a while.
An issue I see here is skiers coming from the east side of the mountain are going to have to ski around the lodge to get back to the lift.

The lift appears to top out right on the Toll Road at the summit knoll just above the summit parking lot, so traffic will be going down off of that stretch of the Toll Road (where it now goes up) to the west side trails.

The summit station is right in the middle of the service road intersection that goes up to the summit telecommunication towers. There will likey be some major re-working of this area to accomodate vehicles that need to get up to service those towers.

Also note that the section of Upper Dipper in bright green is going to be regraded and finished so that the rocks and junk are covered. This means it will open a lot sooner with less snowmaking.

I was trying to figure out what that green highlighting was...

 

[thetrailboss]

Looking at the contours in the area below the pond, getting across to the new lift base is going to be difficult no matter where they do it. IMHO the best solution is to keep with the original plan to go under the Willoughby Quad and cut/grade a traverse between the pond and the MidBurke lodge that funnels down to the new lift. Joe and Jane public are not going to want to ski up any hills. :smile:

Yes, no more uphill slogs! I was going off of memory, but now that I think of it the area below the pond is too low to get to the HSQ base.

According to Schedule B - page 2; 1 acre of parking area is going to be converted into grass covered ski slope. The only saving grace here I will be able to ski to the lift from the overflow lots. I having a feeling parking is going to be an issue on 'busy" days for a while.

Good point.

An issue I see here is skiers coming from the east side of the mountain are going to have to ski around the lodge to get back to the lift.

My thoughts as well.

 

[from_the_NEK]

I've worked up the "official" plans in Google Earth.

The Blue polygon is where there needs to be blasting/regrading to provide all downhill access from the Sherburne Quad.

The woods between Doug's and Upper Warrens Way are going to be compromised

The new HSQ line crosses right over the top of the Poma summit.

 

[Zand]

uke:

 

[kingdom-tele]

Thanks NEK, nice pics.

Can someone remind me how this is such an incredible ungrade.

 

[from_the_NEK]

The more I think about how low they are putting the lift base, the less I like it over having it where the parking lot is.

Pros:
1. Better access for a few condos
2. Better access from parking (the former overflow lots)
100 more feet of vertical from this lift. 3190 - 1570 = 1610 vert (according to contours on the site plan)

Cons:
1. Longer run out from all trails.
2. It is going to take a while to make enough snow to cover that field (Snow making power that would be better used elsewhere).
3. In the spring time that field gets baked in the sun and it is going to be hard to keep the lift open after a few hot sunny days (good reason to keep the Willoughby in running condition)
4. There are going to be a lot of bottlenecks around the mid lodge (if the lift terminal were in the old parking lot the speeds of people skiing around the lodge would probably be lower).
5. Now the lift ride will be 15 seconds longer :razz:

 

[from_the_NEK]

Thanks NEK, nice pics.

Can someone remind me how this is such an incredible ungrade.

No prob. I do it to help me wrap my head around how it is going to change the physics of the mtn.

Incredible upgrade = More repeat skier visits :idea:

The main knock against Burke from the casual skier (doesn't include the major demographic on AZ) is the SLLOOWWW lift to the summit. Fast lift = "I will come back"

 

[thetrailboss]

5. Now the lift ride will be 15 seconds longer :razz:

Well, if it is an HSQ that can do about 1,000 fpm or so (on average if not faster), then we are looking at a 6 minute ride or so.

 

[from_the_NEK]

Well, if it is an HSQ that can do about 1,000 fpm or so (on average if not faster), then we are looking at a 6 minute ride or so.

15 sec longer than having the base terminal up where the parking lot is

 

[kingdom-tele]

No prob. I do it to help me wrap my head around how it is going to change the physics of the mtn.

Incredible upgrade = More repeat skier visits :idea:

The main knock against Burke from the casual skier (doesn't include the major demographic on AZ) is the SLLOOWWW lift to the summit. Fast lift = "I will come back"

Thanks.

If someone could ski 25 runs off the "slow" lift and still stand up right at the end of the day then I think the HSQ would be necessary.

Not that I or the other probable 10 people skiing on Monday next year care, just means our ski day will end at the bar at 2 vs. 3 due to my legs being shot.:smile:

 

[from_the_NEK]

Thanks.

If someone could ski 25 runs off the "slow" lift and still stand up right at the end of the day then I think the HSQ would be necessary.

It's been done and it hurts :grin:

Not that I or the other probable 10 people skiing on Monday next year care, just means our ski day will end at the bar at 2 vs. 3 due to my legs being shot.:smile:

This is true. As long as they run the HSQ for the ten people :smile:

 

[thetrailboss]

This is true. As long as they run the HSQ for the ten people :smile:

Hey now....with the new HSQ there will be 15 people on a Monday, that is a 50% increase! :lol:

Part of the materials in that file included the mountain's skier days for the past few years. You will notice that they actually have not gotten back to 2002-2003 numbers. They've come close, but still they are down.

http://www.anr.state.vt.us/Imaging/Planning/7C0206-13-1/Skier Visit Data Exhbit 5(c).pdf

 

[skiatomic]

Hey now....with the new HSQ there will be 15 people on a Monday, that is a 50% increase! :lol:

Part of the materials in that file included the mountain's skier days for the past few years. You will notice that they actually have not gotten back to 2002-2003 numbers. They've come close, but still they are down.

http://www.anr.state.vt.us/Imaging/Planning/7C0206-13-1/Skier Visit Data Exhbit 5(c).pdf

What are the number of skier visits at peak in 2002-2003 for Burke? The Graph didn't have a scale, sorry.

 

[from_the_NEK]

Hey now....with the new HSQ there will be 15 people on a Monday, that is a 50% increase! :lol:

Part of the materials in that file included the mountain's skier days for the past few years. You will notice that they actually have not gotten back to 2002-2003 numbers. They've come close, but still they are down.

http://www.anr.state.vt.us/Imaging/Planning/7C0206-13-1/Skier Visit Data Exhbit 5(c).pdf

I saw that as well. I'm guessing the graph lines are broken at 10,000 visits. That would put this year at roughly 42,000 visits. 2002-03 was just over 50,000.

In comparison, according to their website, Okemo did 480,000 visits in 1994-95. And everyone still asks if we are serious when we talk about no liftlines at Burke