Do you poach?

[JD]

you do realize that we hiked for those turns, right JD? we were making backcountry skiing decisions. not poaching decisions.

Yes Dude. And you guys are obviously great skiers, know whats up, you blogs are beautiful.Just a sense of what's been going on at Stowe for the last 10 years and in some way such great shots of Mansfield, set up and executed so nicely, make it look safer then maybe it is... Kind of like, people see tracks going somewhere, they follow..people see such fantastic looking TRs, they follow...and it is sketchy to be out in the woods with that little base unless you are very familiar with where you are, as I know you guys were from reading the write up (which did i mention is sick). I knew this would bring out my douchbagedness to even mention it....but as I said, it's a trend I've noticed, what with fat skis and the whole powder revolution...

 

[millerm277]

I make my own decisions, as to what I think of things and live with it. I respect ropes for ongoing snowmaking operations/grooming, otherwise I make my own judgement. And yes, I have hiked up/down a trail or two after getting halfway down and discovering some reason it was closed, like a broken water pipe or whatever. (That happened at Killington once).

There's been a lot of great stuff I've gotten to ski that had legitimate reasons for being closed, it just happened to not be a reason that mattered to me. North Star at Killington with a 100ft bare patch, K27 with the waterbars still open, etc. With the exception of a few places, most ski areas keep a decent policy on it....if you're where you shouldn't be, you're getting in trouble, if you just like "thin cover", no one usually cares unless you look like you're dangerous.

 

[riverc0il]

In discussing more of the meta behind poaching, the problem stems from the fact (and it is a FACT) that ski areas keep trails roped that ski WONDERFULLY. Sometimes poachable trails have some sections that are epic whereas the other side of the trail is disastrously thing. Other times any part of the trail may degrade to thin coverage that may and even likely will cause base damage (even though the turns are worth a few scratches). And sometimes, the rope is completely legit. The problem is the inconsistency!

Sometimes a rope is kept up when EPIC turns are on the other side of the rope. Most times the rope is up and there is likely base damage regardless of the quality of the turns, especially if you don't know the trail and where the typical thin areas are. Very rarely, the rope is up for good reason (specifically after a decent sized storm) because the trail is not yet ready.

It would be to the benefit of everyone if ski areas did not rope trails that are truly epic, posted thin coverage/base damage likely warning signs on trails in the gray area, and then a rope would truly mean something (and those that currently poach and have had that inevitable bad poach experience would appreciate an honest rope and respect it rather than thinking 9 out of 10 times or better it is always worth ducking).

 

[bvibert]

It would be to the benefit of everyone if ski areas did not rope trails that are truly epic, posted thin coverage/base damage likely warning signs on trails in the gray area, and then a rope would truly mean something (and those that currently poach and have had that inevitable bad poach experience would appreciate an honest rope and respect it rather than thinking 9 out of 10 times or better it is always worth ducking).

Good call. I love the use of thin cover signs instead of roping, those are often the best trails on the mountain.

 

[gpetrics]

Yes Dude. And you guys are obviously great skiers, know whats up, you blogs are beautiful.Just a sense of what's been going on at Stowe for the last 10 years and in some way such great shots of Mansfield, set up and executed so nicely, make it look safer then maybe it is... Kind of like, people see tracks going somewhere, they follow..people see such fantastic looking TRs, they follow...and it is sketchy to be out in the woods with that little base unless you are very familiar with where you are, as I know you guys were from reading the write up (which did i mention is sick). I knew this would bring out my douchbagedness to even mention it....but as I said, it's a trend I've noticed, what with fat skis and the whole powder revolution...

thanks for the candid response. i hear what you're saying. sometimes i wonder if we should put up a "don't try this at (your) home (mountain)" warning on our TRs. but then that might make people think we're more bada$$ than we really are or something.

in this case we were off deep in the woods, doing our own thing, making our own decisions (which we don't take lightly, and which i think most would be suprised how conservative they are), pushing through LOTS of "turnbacker" thickets, and occasionally finding something to make some turns on... At the end of all this bushwacking we ended up having some fun on ski experiences, and neat shots which didn't really fit with the legitimately EXCELLENT skiing (and corresponding pictures) we got from MRG/VTah, but which we wanted to share. To do something with the stuff, we decided to write a tongue and cheek/ambiguous "lost in a maze" tr to really bring out what we were feeling out there, since it isn't the kind of TR where you mark your spot with an "X" (for example in the VTah tr, we have no qualms writing trail names, etc). it just seemed odd for the labryinth TR to end up in a closed trail discussion.

but you have a point nonetheless. if we're romanticizing the nature of early season thickiteering to the point of making people do dumb things, that's not good either. I know we tried to get across the nature of early season exploration in the TR, and that it's tough, requires super extra mega caution, and shouldn't be taken lightly. but sometimes the difference between the sarcasm font and the bold font can be hard to find. In the end, it's a point worth considering in the future.

That said, i would hesitate to agree that we've made decisions that have impeded on the "greater good." Thanks for the comments! Helps us sort out what we're doing over here.

 

[gpetrics]

In discussing more of the meta behind poaching, the problem stems from the fact (and it is a FACT) that ski areas keep trails roped that ski WONDERFULLY. Sometimes poachable trails have some sections that are epic whereas the other side of the trail is disastrously thing. Other times any part of the trail may degrade to thin coverage that may and even likely will cause base damage (even though the turns are worth a few scratches). And sometimes, the rope is completely legit. The problem is the inconsistency!

Sometimes a rope is kept up when EPIC turns are on the other side of the rope. Most times the rope is up and there is likely base damage regardless of the quality of the turns, especially if you don't know the trail and where the typical thin areas are. Very rarely, the rope is up for good reason (specifically after a decent sized storm) because the trail is not yet ready.

It would be to the benefit of everyone if ski areas did not rope trails that are truly epic, posted thin coverage/base damage likely warning signs on trails in the gray area, and then a rope would truly mean something (and those that currently poach and have had that inevitable bad poach experience would appreciate an honest rope and respect it rather than thinking 9 out of 10 times or better it is always worth ducking).

here here!

i concur my good man!

 

[JD]

thanks for the candid response. i hear what you're saying. sometimes i wonder if we should put up a "don't try this at (your) home (mountain)" warning on our TRs. but then that might make people think we're more bada$$ than we really are or something.

in this case we were off deep in the woods, doing our own thing, making our own decisions (which we don't take lightly, and which i think most would be suprised how conservative they are), pushing through LOTS of "turnbacker" thickets, and occasionally finding something to make some turns on... At the end of all this bushwacking we ended up having some fun on ski experiences, and neat shots which didn't really fit with the legitimately EXCELLENT skiing (and corresponding pictures) we got from MRG/VTah, but which we wanted to share. To do something with the stuff, we decided to write a tongue and cheek/ambiguous "lost in a maze" tr to really bring out what we were feeling out there, since it isn't the kind of TR where you mark your spot with an "X" (for example in the VTah tr, we have no qualms writing trail names, etc). it just seemed odd for the labryinth TR to end up in a closed trail discussion.

but you have a point nonetheless. if we're romanticizing the nature of early season thickiteering to the point of making people do dumb things, that's not good either. I know we tried to get across the nature of early season exploration in the TR, and that it's tough, requires super extra mega caution, and shouldn't be taken lightly. but sometimes the difference between the sarcasm font and the bold font can be hard to find. In the end, it's a point worth considering in the future.

That said, i would hesitate to agree that we've made decisions that have impeded on the "greater good." Thanks for the comments! Helps us sort out what we're doing over here.

Your TR CERTAINLY explained in great detail the very nature of the mission you were on that day. Exploring. I guess it ended up over hear due to the fact that is was at Stowe. It's opened, and there are people poaching and hiking all over from the lifts. It is that specific Mtn that I really have all my lift served experience at, and I felt that , although you folks are, like I said, demonstrating some well documented badassery, it represents something that I see as a potential issue....and in this case your stunning Blog photos taken out of context illustrate that point better then anything else I've seen this year. Should you guys care if other people think your being reckless.....probably not. Thanks for taking my comments for what they were...Looking forward to more walpaper from you guys...

 

[billski]

here here!

i concur my good man!

Regarding roped trails, it serves me well to get to know patrol and there roping philosophies, which range from draconian to loose.
Knowing why they do what they do and what they'll permit enables me to make
Smart choices about rope ducking. I'm a wanderer and have no "home"area. I have no "INS."
In one example, in what appeared to be a closed trail was actually intended to avoid an icy ledge.
In discussing it with patrol, he led me downslope to an unmarked cut in that was perfectly fine with him.
Patrol likes to have fun to. They just want you to be safe.
They have even tipped me off to hot stashes.
Which brings me to reports and secret stashes. In a public forum, the land of 1000 lurkers, shielding details is often the responsible thing to do.
While we may want to selfishly keep it to yourself, you don't know what your audience is.
Stashes are best shown or personally discusssed. You can then size up their skills and maturity and
Prudence. Even then you can throttle the info. So best to keep off piste nameless on a public forum.
I still love great pics and great story tellers.

 

[Geoff]

I rarely duck ropes that are blatant. When you live at a ski area, the opportunity cost of getting your pass yanked for a couple of weeks is just way too high. When I do duck something, it's not something where a sled dog would be pissed that I made them trash their skis if they had to come get me. 80% of the time, I'm ducking ropes to navigate the hill midweek. Nobody is going to care if I duck a rope to skate a flat connecting trail on a Tuesday. They might get pissed at 11:00 on a Saturday.

 

[WWF-VT]

It would be to the benefit of everyone if ski areas did not rope trails that are truly epic, posted thin coverage/base damage likely warning signs on trails in the gray area, and then a rope would truly mean something (and those that currently poach and have had that inevitable bad poach experience would appreciate an honest rope and respect it rather than thinking 9 out of 10 times or better it is always worth ducking).

Sugarbush falls into the honest rope category. You'll see lots of thin cover / experts only signs posted on questionable trails. Last weekend there was lots of thin cover and traditonal blue trails were posted as Experts Only based upon the conditions that day. I like to say that "just because a trail is open, it doesn't mean I want to ski it".

 

[dns1764]

i've done it right uder a chairlift before. the powder was calling my name. right after we ran to the lodge for a little bit. definetly worth it