East or West?

[Plowboy]

Here is a couple of over rated Snowbird shots from last year.

 

[Geoff]

it's almost 2 different sports. while eastern skiing has it's charms ... there's no comparison. even the best of pow days in the east is generally on an ice base. out west, even when they haven't had snow in a week, it blows away virtually any eastern day. and the terrain ... i've seen areas out west where outer limits would be a double blue. and then the bowls, chutes, cornices, cliffs ... you want bumps. perfect bumps on incredible snow that go on & on. beautiful tree runs.

That's the point I was about to make. In the east, you need a whole pant load of snow or you're touching that bullet-proof ice lurking underneath. That killer March we had 5 years ago was the closest I can remember to western-style skiing. Everytime we got 6", there was no ice underneath. Jay Peak can get in good cycles where they can have several weeks like that every season before rain or a huge wind scour puts it back to New England conditions.

Sadly, the increase in uphill capacity at many western resorts combined with all the grooming they have to do for that mass of traffic has really degraded the skiing surface. At the ski areas in Colorado on I-70 or at high traffic places like Park City, if there hasn't been snow in a week, it's awfully firm. Even famous formerly retro places like Taos and Alta aren't immune to the problem. I've become a huge fan of mid-sized western ski areas with rickety double chairs. I like ski-in/ski-out convenience, posh base lodges, and high speed lifts as much as the next guy but I'd rather have to drive 25 minutes to a completely undeveloped ski area, boot up in the parking lot, ride rickety lifts, and find lightly cut-up powder days after a snowstorm.

 

[Geoff]

I would take 2 ft. of pow at any place with awsome glades over 2 ft at any where out west.

I prefer.... BOTH.

I take it you've never been to Steamboat where glade trails though the aspens like Shadows and Closet are world famous.... or Deer Valley where the experts-only map shows you all the goods and the Bogner people stick exclusively to the groomed trails.... or far skier's left at Snowbird around Thunder Bowl... or any of the dozen named glade trails at Blackcomb like Outer Limits off the Crystal Chair... or cat skiing the trees on Mt Tsuius with Monashee Powder Adventures.

Yeah, you're right. The west sucks for glade skiing. Don't go there.

 

[Plowboy]

Yeah, you're right. The west sucks for glade skiing. Don't go there.

Darn, I've been telling everyone how great it is. Now I see my bad. Yup, your correct, it does suck.

 

[skiadikt]

That's the point I was about to make. In the east, you need a whole pant load of snow or you're touching that bullet-proof ice lurking underneath. That killer March we had 5 years ago was the closest I can remember to western-style skiing. Everytime we got 6", there was no ice underneath. Jay Peak can get in good cycles where they can have several weeks like that every season before rain or a huge wind scour puts it back to New England conditions.

Sadly, the increase in uphill capacity at many western resorts combined with all the grooming they have to do for that mass of traffic has really degraded the skiing surface. At the ski areas in Colorado on I-70 or at high traffic places like Park City, if there hasn't been snow in a week, it's awfully firm. Even famous formerly retro places like Taos and Alta aren't immune to the problem. I've become a huge fan of mid-sized western ski areas with rickety double chairs. I like ski-in/ski-out convenience, posh base lodges, and high speed lifts as much as the next guy but I'd rather have to drive 25 minutes to a completely undeveloped ski area, boot up in the parking lot, ride rickety lifts, and find lightly cut-up powder days after a snowstorm.

yeah that march was special. i remember having to duck under tree branches on julio because the base was so high. i thought the october dump this past season also provided that pow without bullet-proof ice base experience.

i kind of disagree about the I-70 thing. sure if you ski riva ridge at vail late in the day after they haven't had snow in a week, it can be hardpacked. but western hardpack still blows away conditions you'll find most of the time in the east. and we don't go west to ski trails like that. beaver creek and maryjane come to mind as a places where you can find plenty of lightly cut-up powder days after a snowstorm. also breckenridge and the trees & bumps at keystone.

 

[awf170]

Here is a couple of over rated Snowbird shots from last year.

Only reason it is still untracked is because you have to hike to it. I bet you didn't do it...

And for the thousand time, I know the west gets powder, and a lot of it but I just think people have unrealistic expectations of waist deep powder every day, which isn't the case unless you ski backcountry.

I prefer.... BOTH.

I take it you've never been to Steamboat where glade trails though the aspens like Shadows and Closet are world famous.... or Deer Valley where the experts-only map shows you all the goods and the Bogner people stick exclusively to the groomed trails.... or far skier's left at Snowbird around Thunder Bowl... or any of the dozen named glade trails at Blackcomb like Outer Limits off the Crystal Chair... or cat skiing the trees on Mt Tsuius with Monashee Powder Adventures.

Yeah, you're right. The west sucks for glade skiing. Don't go there.

I didn't say anything bad about west coast glades. I just think east coast ones are better. I just looked up some pics of those glades at steamboat, there like trails with a few trees. Even the tighter ones are nothing like the easts.

 

[skiadikt]

I would take 2 ft. of pow at any place with awsome glades over 2 ft at any where out west. Deep snow in glades just blows away anything else IMO. The terrian out west is different, I wouldn't say more challenging. Us easterners freak out at a really steep exposed line, westerners would freak out at some of the stuff call glades. And for steep exposed lines Mt. Washington rivals anything inbounds in the West. Try to find something as sick as the headwall, dutches, pipeline, or dodges inbounds out west, I don't think you will.
Dodges: (nuts, I wont think about skiing it for a long time)

being a tuck's vet myself, i can't disagree about the extreme terrain offered on mt washington. but that's only one place and you can't really ski it until later in the season. and while i'm a fan of earning turns, there's so many places out west where you can just ski off a lift and be looking at some 'oh shit' terrain. also i think this discussion is more about eastern & western ski resorts/areas. if you want to talk out-of-bounds or hike-to terrain out west, it's a whole other league.

and what geoff said about glades ... i know this year, we had days at maryjane and vail, where other than a change of pace we were in the trees all day.

 

[Geoff]

Darn, I've been telling everyone how great it is. Now I see my bad. Yup, your correct, it does suck.

Nah. Do what the Rec.Skiing.Alpine usenet group always did 10 years ago. Sacrifice one resort. Send everybody to Vail.

 

[Plowboy]

Try to find something as sick as the headwall, dutches, pipeline, or dodges inbounds out west, I don't think you will.

No, I did not ski it. But, I did have a great day in Thunder Bowl. The pics I put in were just an example of western inbound sking.

IMO Utah is not over rated.

 

[SkiMangoJazz]

Darn, I've been telling everyone how great it is. Now I see my bad. Yup, your correct, it does suck.

Yeah, particularly Vail in late February. Noone should go there then.

 

[highpeaksdrifter]

and what geoff said about glades ... i know this year, we had days at maryjane and vail, where other than a change of pace we were in the trees all day.

This past season was the first time I went to MJ. We went for the bumps, but also where very impressed with the tree skiing. They have glades there as tight as anything I've skied in the East.

 

[marcski]

Same difference. But yeah thats kinda what I meet. But you now what is overated, utah.

You just haven't skied the goods in utah if that is your opinion, Awf.

 

[skibum1321]

The only time the east is consistently good is on warm days from mid-March through the end of April when it's spring conditions.

There are also times during the midwinter season in the East when it gets good for weeks or months at a time during most seasons. This season was especially bad and that never really happened, though.

 

[Greg]

Good. I like having a good heated debate as long as nobody gets too mad or gets into a huge flame war, come on its just the internet. Sures beats those boring "your favorate/most under/over rated _______ threads. Heres kinda the same thing over at TGR I found. It also turns into a pretty heated arguement.
http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9653&highlight=stowe+east+west

Well for the record, we're very different than TGR and we intend to keep it that way. And as far as those "boring" threads, nobody is forcing you to post in them. If you have some other more compelling topics you'd like to discuss, start a thread.

 

[awf170]

You just haven't skied the goods in utah if that is your opinion, Awf.

Yes, I have. Utah is awsome. I would way rather ski there than New England. Its some of the best and most consitent skiing in the West. I just think people in the east treat it as the holy grail of western skiing. That is all you hear about lately, everyone goes to utah now. Utah gets a ton of snow but gets tracked out a lot more quickly then other places out west. I would choose whistler, kicking horse, red mountain, sunshine village, baker, wolf creek and probably a few other mountains over utah.
These pics are inbouds at sunshine village 3 days after the snowstorm, I still had a ton of untracked 3 days after the storm, IMO that just doesn't happen in utah(well maybe at powder mountain)

 

[kbroderick]

Having blown my discretionary spending for the year in Utah late in April and mostly missed out on the small-but-effective dump the day before I got there...I say hogwash to anyone claiming Utah is overrated. Sure, the end of April conditions weren't perfect...but they still had ten feet of snowpack at the summits of Snowbasin and Alta on closing day, which happened to be the day Stowe was supposed to have free skiing but couldn't because of weather conditions. Yes, the Eastern gnar is gnar for a whole different set of reasons than the Western gnar, and I'm fairly unlikely to bolt West at least for the foreseeable future (the skiing wasn't that much better), but Utah is anything but overrated.

Expecting powder? True, you might not get a big dump while you're out there on a limited timespan; my parents were at Snowbird for about a week the same time of year last year and saw something like three small storms, while I got 5 days of bluebird and one day of crap. However, five days of Utah bluebird is nothing to sneer at, and I still managed to get some reasonably fresh tracks (leftovers from the day before I got there) as well as some excellent corn.

And I spent my six days inbounds. That's without even considering anything that would require a transceiver (which I don't own or know how to use) or more than a short bootpack.

Why, then, am I still living in Vermont? First, because I have surpassed the point where I can fit everything I own into my '91 GTi; that makes a total impulse move slightly implausible. Second, I really like where I am, and my skiing goal for next year is to improve my off-trail skiing to the point where I am reasonably comfortable on the truly gnar stuff around here even when it's not covered by two feet of fluffy fresh. Related to that, skiing in the East Does Not Suck.

I'll expand on that last point, because I think it's pretty crucial. If you can go out and enjoy a crappy weather day with questionable snow conditions in Vermont, then the motivation to move West is substantially reduced. I had probably a handful of incredible days this year, and a lot more that I really enjoyed despite various weather- and condition-related issues. I've got more terrain to explore for next year (although I need to get myself some AT bindings and skins), and my skiing could certainly use some improvement. Or, to put it another way...I'm quite confident that I can ski upwards of sixty days next year and not get bored, even if I don't manage another trip West. And if you need inspiration, grab some Meathead DVDs.

Or, as c0il said, it's not that Utah is overrated, just that New England is underrated.

 

[Ski Diva]

The problem with skiing out west, is that, well, it's out west. I can be at the mountain here in five minutes. All winter long. Not just for 5 or 10 days a season. And that counts for a lot.

Still, I wish we could import some of the dumps they get out there. Wouldn't hurt.

 

[awf170]

Or, as c0il said, it's not that Utah is overrated, just that New England is underrated.

Yeah, I guess. Makes sense.

About Utah I'm not saying that it is over rated compared to the east. I'm saying that it is overated compared to other great places out west.

 

[tekweezle]

everyone needs to go out west to ski atleast once in their lives. it could be a life changing experience. too be able to ski for miles without getting on a ski lift is great. higher elevations, generally less harsh weather. i still ski in the east by default but any chance I get to go out west, I do it.

i used to think there was plenty in the east coast to ski that I would never have the need to go out west but I was wrong. in fact, there is plenty in the east that I have not skied and will be trying to rectify that.

skiing in the east versus the west is different. one thing though is that skiing on eastern ice which is the norm for us is a challenge to those who don;t see it often. conversely, soft bumps and deep powder are conditions we don;t see much of here on the east coast.

 

[ski_resort_observer]

I just think people in the east treat it as the holy grail of western skiing. That is all you hear about lately, everyone goes to utah now. /QUOTE]

This is based on what?

Your comment that Utah gets tracked up more is based on what? With all due respect, your sweeping generalizations are incorrect IMHO. Methinks you have fallen for the hype not the reality of it.

The west has bigger mountains and on average get more snow but not always. Last winter the PNW which usually gets tons on snow, did not. I can remember winters at JH when we were begging for snow. One winter it was almost Xmas when we got good snow. I remember the east having some great snow years when the west didn't. When the snow is good, skiing anywhere is good. East, west, north, south...whatever. Staring to get the feeling that some of my fellow eastern skiers are little insecure and maybe alittle jealous. My take is that there is no reason to be.