Environmental Damage at Cannon Mountain Ski Area

[jimmywilson69]

The point is nobody seems to be here arguing the point, it's about discrediting threecy and refuting everything he posts. Nobody even responded to your post and I doubt most even read it. Probably the only worthwhile and professional opinion in the whole thread.

If people feel there is no problem I think they should argue you and not threecy

I get it now.

regardless of who owns Cannon or any other ski area with erosion. It's easily and relatively cost effective to fix and control erosion.

 

[Riverskier]

I can't quite figure out why all the hostility but a couple of comments...

1) IMO - consideration of leasing the ski area to a private operator is completely valid discussion

and

2) Whether a state or federal entity is managing, their charter includes stewardship of the land, these pictures do not paint a flattering picture of the the ski area/park management.

I would wonder if given the Fall schedule for construction whether time ran out for erosion control measures and debris was pushed to the side to be reclaimed this summer? I hope....

I agree. Both valid points and not sure what the hostility toward Threecy is all about.

 

[Puck it]

I agree. Both valid points and not sure what the hostility toward Threecy is all about.

Look at the website, he created. It is total propganda for his axe grinding. I agree with him on the cleanup. It should be done, but his method of doing it is completely whacked.

 

[steve22]

Threecy is pointing out the blatant hypocrisy on the part of Cannon management in regards to how they protect the fragile environment on their peaks. I hiked up Kinsman Ridge Tr w/ my boys a couple of weeks ago and near the Tram house you are literally corralled either into the house or up a path to the observation tower by ropes and signs. I think it's necessary for all the traffic that piles off of the Tram all summer but across the saddle there's a far different story to tell as his photos reveal.

I don't that there'as any argument at all regarding the discarded lift shack. My 11 year old Boy Scout can tell you all about Leave No Trace, Pack it out, etc. Just because we've all seen stuff in the woods from the 60's, 70's etc at other ski areas doesn't make the situation at Mittersill OK.

Disregard the thread if it's all a waste of your time or if you don't like the poster.

 

[Riverskier]

Look at the website, he created. It is total propganda for his axe grinding. I agree with him on the cleanup. It should be done, but his method of doing it is completely whacked.

I don't know Threecy so I have no idea whether he has an axe to grind with anyone. However, I did look at his website. He clearly doesn't like Cannon being managed by the state of NH for financial reasons, environmental reasons, access issues, and perhaps for other reasons as well. I am not saying that he is right, or that there is necessarily is a right or wrong in every respect, and I am certainly not saying anyone on here should agree with him, but his arguments are certainly valid. I still don't understand the hostility.

 

[Black Phantom]

I don't know Threecy so I have no idea whether he has an axe to grind with anyone. However, I did look at his website. He clearly doesn't like Cannon being managed by the state of NH for financial reasons, environmental reasons, access issues, and perhaps for other reasons as well. I am not saying that he is right, or that there is necessarily is a right or wrong in every respect, and I am certainly not saying anyone on here should agree with him, but his arguments are certainly valid. I still don't understand the hostility.

Many on this forum have a deeply personal issue with the poster. It is amazing that it has gone on this far with the personal attacks levied directly at him.

Be very careful of not supporting the group think attack mentality.

 

[ctenidae]

I thought we liked Cannon because of it's low-budget state-runnedness. I'm fairly certain a for-profit company with a lease would run it very differently from a break-even-if-you-can state agency. And in that difference I think teh state would be losing something.

Should they clean up any environmental impacts? Sure- no matter how minor, they should be held to at least the same standard as the private sector, and should work to provide a better example.

Should they have clean financials? Sure, at least as clean as any other government agency. Not really looking to them to set an example of proper accountancy, though.

Not sure what other problems exist or are percieved. Do they really prevent people from hiking in the state park? Or are they trying to keep people out of an active construction site?

/disclaimer: I haven't read any of the other threads about Cannon, and don't know threecy from an environmentally ravaged dump and cover hole in the gorund.

 

[riverc0il]

The last batch of photos for now to be posted are online. This is a non-access road section of the Sky Line trail.

If you have ever skied the Skyline trail... you would know that this is just about par for the course. There is a VEEEEERY thin layer of soil of total rock and in many places there is not soil at all. Skyline really sucks when the snow is thin. Driving a truck up might not have helped but the trail was already just wrong any ways.

Non-access road? How else to you get to the top of the ski area in a vehicle? Certainly not liftline and Barron's is steeper. Skyline is the best route.

 

[riverc0il]

Just for the record, I think Cannon should go back and clean up this stuff.

BUT... the presentation being made here is without context. I am not saying "who cares" but rather that I don't trust threecy as a source and I think his posting without context is for the point of an agenda making a few easily cleaned up minor issues seem like the end of the world.

Personally, I would much rather talk about getting Kinsman Glade and the Kinsman hiking trail cleaned up. That drainage is an absolute mess and much more of a concern than the above pictures at Mittersill.

 

[thetrailboss]

I agree. Both valid points and not sure what the hostility toward Threecy is all about.

Try having a discussion with him about points that you disagree with him on and you will see why folks don't like his style.

 

[deadheadskier]

Many on this forum have a deeply personal issue with the poster.

.

False. I have no issues with threecy the person. I've never met him.

BUT... the presentation being made here is without context. I am not saying "who cares" but rather that I don't trust threecy as a source and I think his posting without context is for the point of an agenda making a few easily cleaned up minor issues seem like the end of the world.

this is what it's about.

Environmentally:

The erosion pictures threecy has pointed out wouldn't get a glance from the head of the EPA. That's not to say they shouldn't be corrected, but it's emptying your bacon grease down the drain type stuff.

Monetarily:

Leasing Cannon represents one 100th of 1 percent of the revenue for the State Budget. 500K. It's not even a crumb on the plate.

So here we are discussing 500K and you know what's going on at the same time? NH is debating lowering the cigarette tax by 10 cents resulting in an annual loss of 7M dollars in revenue. So, it would take 14 YEARS leasing Cannon to equal one year of cigarette tax reduction. Think about that. That's just cigarette tax. What about all of the other taxes and expenses that are a major problem for the state's budget?

leasing off and potentially destroying one of the people of New Hampshire's great public assets for the benefit of 500K per year. About 38 cents a resident.

The Ax is grinding, the sparks are in the air and I'm going to say something when I see those sparks......because they smell like a rotten political agenda with zero concern for what's right for the state's resources both land an financial.

 

[Geoff]

Monetarily:

Leasing Cannon represents one 100th of 1 percent of the revenue for the State Budget. 500K. It's not even a crumb on the plate.

Not accurate.

A private operator would pay workmans comp, unemployment insurance, and state income tax. The ski area employees wouldn't get state health & retirement benefits.

More like a "morsel" than a "crumb".

 

[Black Phantom]

Originally Posted by Black Phantom
Many on this forum have a deeply personal issue with the poster.

False. I have no issues with threecy the person. I've never met him.

Since when are many condensed to one?

 

[Cannonball]

Since when are many condensed to one?

Good question! I guess only when the opinions of individual posters suddenly become condensed into the opinions of "the forum"

The forum disagrees, this so called 'environmental' damage is totally acceptable. Most likely you are some kind of political hack with an axe to grind in Concord and Ossipee.

 

[Glenn]

t-minus 6 posts before someone starts talking about 1st Amendment Rights....

 

[Geoff]

t-minus 6 posts before someone starts talking about 1st Amendment Rights....

What would GSS have to say about this?

 

[AdironRider]

Not accurate.

A private operator would pay workmans comp, unemployment insurance, and state income tax. The ski area employees wouldn't get state health & retirement benefits.

More like a "morsel" than a "crumb".

State income tax?

 

[deadheadskier]

I believe Geoff is referring to Business income tax, which is 8.5% in NH. Cannon doesn't pay that tax now, but if leased, the profits would be taxed.

 

[jack97]

I believe Geoff is referring to Business income tax, which is 8.5% in NH. Cannon doesn't pay that tax now, but if leased, the profits would be taxed.

Hmm, in NH can a private business offset the profits by incurring more debt or depreciation of assets... so net effect is zero state tax paid?

 

[Geoff]

Hmm, in NH can a private business offset the profits by incurring more debt or depreciation of assets... so net effect is zero state tax paid?

Tough to depreciate anything when you are leasing it.

The goal of any business is to make a profit. If you load yourself up with debt, you just become another Les Otten with the inevitible catastrophe.