Fat Skis, Hard Snow

[BenedictGomez]

I had a fun day at Cannon yesterday but I found the conditions to be pretty icy....... the folks on wide skis tearing it up like it was corduroy...... I'm guessing the average waist was around 120mm. I have some Volkl Mantra's on the way to me.............Will my new Mantra's help me on this kind of day?

With all due respect JSHSKI, its become pretty obvious that you didn't want an answer to the question you asked in your OP (above).

You simply wanted the answer that you wanted to hear

The people that gave you that answer you make kissy-kissy with

The people that didnt give you that answer you're now slagging.

 

[JSHSKI]

With all due respect JSHSKI, its become pretty obvious that you didn't want an answer to the question you asked in your OP (above).

You simply wanted the answer that you wanted to hear

The people that gave you that answer you make kissy-kissy with

The people that didnt give you that answer you're now slagging.

I will not argue that I have a bias and that it shows. I do enjoy reading that others use, and like using, skis similar to my new ones even here in the east. I have no intention of loosing my Tigersharks, which I will use most of the time. I'm also willing to admit that the suggestion to get a tune up and to work on my skills and not just rely on equipment are appropriate and appreciated.
What I am slagging is the poster who joins by saying Seriously??? then proceeds to say he is the only one who can carve a turn, not once, but several times. He has a real attitude problem and his contributions don't improve this forum that I can see. I tried to search for other posts to see if he is sometimes a valuable contributor. I honestly could not find the way to do this. So based on his posts in this thread, I think the others he was attacking showed great self control. As the OP, I felt it was my obligation to say something when positive contributors were being slagged. Many others who were not on the pro fat side of the discussion made positive contributions too. Sure I'm a hypocrite, but at least I don't post that everyone who disagrees with me is a looser noob in an obnoxious manner.

 

[atkinson]

All bluster HS? A free ticket gets offered and all of sudden you're silent? I don't plan any sabotage if you come and was even going to invite few friends to join us, like Egan. We don't want to hurt, we want to convert.

Here's some physics for everyone to ponder.

It wasn't until I got on early rise and rockered skis did I realize my biggest potential ability to drive the front of the ski without challenge of getting tossed or catching an edge. I roll forward, push down as hard as I want, they just smoothly accept the pressure and flow over changes in terrain. It's like suspension on a mountain bike.

Speaking of pressure ... a traditional cambered ski has a longer effective edge, plus it takes more energy to flex than a rockered ski. Potential pressure is spread out over a greater area, where a rockered ski tends to concentrate ski pressure underfoot, almost like a skate.

It also takes less energy to flex a ski that starts out slightly flexed. Tip and rip. With slight camber underfoot and tip/tail rocker, I've held on the slick plate confidently.

Do I ever skid turns, sure. Every skier and rider does, as we should. It's a vital skill and one we blend with carving on a regular basis. Bode's okay with it, so am I.

Wide skis are better for a wider variety of snow conditions and can be really good on ice too. You simply can't judge a ski by its width or shape alone.

Are early rise or rockered skis going to show up at races? Check out what Volkl is producing now. "Völkl’s Code Speedwall combines two worlds – racing and rocker. The Speedwall technology has its roots in the ski world cup. The gentle tail-tip rocker is a combination of classic camber pre-tension in the center and rocker curve in the tip and tail. The result: playful handling while gliding with easy turn initiation without the danger of catching an edge."

The OP noted that others were ripping the firm on wide rockered skis and wondered if he might get this boost in ability. Who knows? Time will tell. I suspect he'll do just fine.

If HS doesn't claim it soon, the ticket is yours, JSHSKI. Hugs.

 

[Highway Star]

I will not argue that I have a bias and that it shows. I do enjoy reading that others use, and like using, skis similar to my new ones even here in the east. I have no intention of loosing my Tigersharks, which I will use most of the time. I'm also willing to admit that the suggestion to get a tune up and to work on my skills and not just rely on equipment are appropriate and appreciated.
What I am slagging is the poster who joins by saying Seriously??? then proceeds to say he is the only one who can carve a turn, not once, but several times. He has a real attitude problem and his contributions don't improve this forum that I can see. I tried to search for other posts to see if he is sometimes a valuable contributor. I honestly could not find the way to do this. So based on his posts in this thread, I think the others he was attacking showed great self control. As the OP, I felt it was my obligation to say something when positive contributors were being slagged. Many others who were not on the pro fat side of the discussion made positive contributions too. Sure I'm a hypocrite, but at least I don't post that everyone who disagrees with me is a looser noob in an obnoxious manner.

Seriously?

I didn't attack anyone in this thread, merely stating the obvious.

Fact is, most people don't carve. Try looking some time. I'll bet some people you identify as carving, are not actually carving. Many pretty good advanced skiers never carve. Most experts only carve part time, especially not on steeps. Anyone making short turns on a large radius ski isn't carving. And I assure you, someone who is on fat skis all the time is not doing much, if any, carving.

I've carved on rossi axioms (110mm), powder plus (115), big daddies (125), S7's (118mm), and chopsticks (128mm) on firm packed powder. It's NOT EASY and exceptionally hard on the knees. They are meant to be skidded on harder snow, nobody is going around carving them, trust me.

I do most of my carving on razor sharp 192cm Elan M777 with a Vist V13 plate and 11-17 din 997's w/lifters. They are a 26m radius, 85mm waist. Weigh about 20 lb. Carve great GS turns, super smooth on granular and ice gnar.

 

[Highway Star]

All bluster HS? A free ticket gets offered and all of sudden you're silent? I don't plan any sabotage if you come and was even going to invite few friends to join us, like Egan. We don't want to hurt, we want to convert.
.

Which skis should I bring...hint: one is for carving, the other is for owning trees tighter than you can imagine.

Can I bring my posse? 4 free tix and you've got yourself a deal. :wink:

 

[BenedictGomez]

I will not argue that I have a bias and that it shows. I do enjoy reading that others use, and like using, skis similar to my new ones even here in the east. I have no intention of loosing my Tigersharks, which I will use most of the time

I'm not here to defend anyone in this thread or slag anyone in this thread.

I'm simply stating that anyone who thinks that something like a 130mm underfoot ski is going to perform "as well" or "better" than something like a 65mm underfoot ski (READ: Literally twice the width) etc... on firm snow, and/or boilerplate ice (which is exactly what was being stated by some), either doesnt know what he/she is talking about or is consuming crazy pills.

Look, I too, like to hear other people's thoughts and opinions. But facts are facts, and to state the above is like stating that Thomas Jefferson was the president before Bill Clinton and after Jimmy Carter. When something is just factually incorrect, it's no longer an opinion.



EDIT: And with that I'm bowing out of this thread, but I will continue to lurk with some popcorn and a lawnchair.

 

[atkinson]

Sorry dude. Four tickets is more than I have to share. Nice try though.

 

[Highway Star]

I can assure everyone that nobody is using fat skis for a ski-off........

 

[Highway Star]

My experience is the opposite. I have new Rossi Experience 88s (170s, with slight front rocker) which I've skied @ 6 days. My old skis are Volkl Allstar Supersports (163s) which are narrow waisted. I've skied them both on the same day, same conditions/trails, both with newly sharpened edges. To my pleasant surprise the Rossi's held on ice and hard pack much better than the Volkls (and the Volkls are very good there). It's totally counter-intuitive; looking at them side by side, you'd assume the opposite.

I bought the Rossi's to serve as a one ski quiver for any condition we find in the east, and they are living up to their sparkling reviews in every respect (though I'm still waiting for enough cover for tree skiing). Extremely pleased with them.

I'm going to take a wild guess that you have integrated markers on the volkls and rossi bindings on the rossi's. The difference you're noticing is in the lateral stiffness in the binding, the rossi's are much stiffer bindings. Put the ski down on a wood floor and stand on it, put empty boot in, move boot side to side - how much movement?

Or, your volkls have too much base bevel.

 

[mister moose]

Ding ding! HS wins the prize for the best judging without having an actual clue.

Come on up big guy and we'll go for a little spin. Then you can trash talk. The lift ticket is on me..... I believe HS called me out. I was just offering to inform his opinion and don't want to travel for the opportunity. The ticket offer stands for HS at Sugarbush....

All bluster HS? A free ticket gets offered and all of sudden you're silent? I don't plan any sabotage if you come and was even going to invite few friends to join us, like Egan. We don't want to hurt, we want to convert.

Which skis should I bring...hint: one is for carving, the other is for owning trees tighter than you can imagine.
Can I bring my posse? 4 free tix and you've got yourself a deal. :wink:

Sorry dude. Four tickets is more than I have to share. Nice try though.

Forget the ski-off, HS. You just lost the AZ-off. You get invited to Sugarbush, offered a free lift ticket, the chance to meet some new people that are probably pretty good skiers, ski with some guy named Egan that only has a trail named after him and just might know something about skiing... and you say that isn't enough, I need to bring more people and you have to cover them too?

Putz.

Next time take the hand outstretched, drop the ego, and see the world.

 

[Cheese]

This thread has really got me looking forward to the AZ Loaf trip. I am looking forward to sharing runs with other great skiers, talking technique and observing how a varied collection of gear performs under all these exceptional skiers.

I'll most likely have my Rossi Z10s (soft slalom ski) and Rossi S7s (tip and tail rocker w/traditional camber underfoot) along for the trip which ski completely differently (IMO). The S7s have demo bindings on them so if anyone has another quick adjust binding and wants to swap for a run or two, seek me out on the slopes. :beer:

 

[skiersleft]

Forget the ski-off, HS. You just lost the AZ-off. You get invited to Sugarbush, offered a free lift ticket, the chance to meet some new people that are probably pretty good skiers, ski with some guy named Egan that only has a trail named after him and just might know something about skiing... and you say that isn't enough, I need to bring more people and you have to cover them too?

Putz.

Next time take the hand outstretched, drop the ego, and see the world.

I agree with MMoose. Although I think HS is right that it's obvious that narrow skis outperform fat skis in hardpack, refusing the offer to ski free at sugarbush and meet new people is very lame. I'm sure HS is a a great skier, especially with narrow skis that are recently tuned. Now, if he would just tune his attitude, things would be better. 3 degree bevel angle would be ideal.

 

[Highway Star]

Forget the ski-off, HS. You just lost the AZ-off. You get invited to Sugarbush, offered a free lift ticket, the chance to meet some new people that are probably pretty good skiers, ski with some guy named Egan that only has a trail named after him and just might know something about skiing... and you say that isn't enough, I need to bring more people and you have to cover them too?

Putz.

Next time take the hand outstretched, drop the ego, and see the world.

I've been to sugarbush plenty of times, thanks. I'll have to figure out a time when I would be available to go solo, then I can accept the challege. Not to mention, the guy is a middle manager at Sugarbush, I'm sure he can come up with 4 comp tix.

Oh, and he's always welcome to come to Killington for a ski-off.

 

[Highway Star]

.........all these exceptional skiers.

You need to check out the trip reports section.

 

[WWF-VT]

I have been amused following this thread. I have skied with Atkinson and can assure you that he does carve on hardpack with his 118 mm underfoot skis. Ski with him in the woods and you will see skills that separate him from mere mortals.

 

[atkinson]

I get two vouchers a season to give away, same as every other employee. I was willing to burn 50% of my stash on you.

Could I ask for four more? Sure. For what reason? Some internet guy asked for them when I offered him one for free. Yeah, that'll go over well.

 

[skiersleft]

I get two vouchers a season to give away, same as every other employee. I was willing to burn 50% of my stash on you.

Could I ask for four more? Sure. For what reason? Some internet guy asked for them when I offered him one for free. Yeah, that'll go over well.

I'll take one and ski with you if HS doesn't want it. I'm not challenging you to a ski off, nor do I think I can ski better than you. But it would sure be fun to ski the mountain with a local.

I know it won't work, but I had to try. Sorry.

 

[Highway Star]

I get two vouchers a season to give away, same as every other employee. I was willing to burn 50% of my stash on you.

Could I ask for four more? Sure. For what reason? Some internet guy asked for them when I offered him one for free. Yeah, that'll go over well.

Lol. Tell them it's for a ski-off, I bet that would go over well.

Don't waste your free ticket on me, I'm just fine skiing Killington or Pico. Thanks.

 

[steamboat1]

I get two vouchers a season to give away, same as every other employee. I was willing to burn 50% of my stash on you.

Could I ask for four more? Sure. For what reason? Some internet guy asked for them when I offered him one for free. Yeah, that'll go over well.

Aren't you also able to purchase something like 30 employee discount tickets for others during the season? My friend is only a kids coach on weekends & is able to get them for me when I ski with him during the week for like $30. I'm not suggesting you do that for anyone here with the attitude you've gotten from some, just asking.

HS I also have a Pico/K pass but it's nice to ski around a bit also. Probably only spend 1/2 my ski days at Pico/K.

 

[Edd]

I'm going to take a wild guess that I'm the only person in this thread that has actually ever carved a turn.

I have been amused following this thread. I have skied with Atkinson and can assure you that he does carve on hardpack with his 118 mm underfoot skis. Ski with him in the woods and you will see skills that separate him from mere mortals.

As you can see by the quote above yours WWF, just by posting in this thread you've lost your ability to carve a turn so I'm not sure you're a good judge.

Ah shit, I just lost mine. Delete!