Fat Skis, Hard Snow

[Cheese]

You need to check out the trip reports section.

I'd rather reserve judgment for the slopes. Everybody is young, fit and an expert at everything on the Internet.

I had a fun day at Cannon yesterday but I found the conditions to be pretty icy. Then there were the folks on wide skis tearing it up like it was corduroy.

So, to prove or disprove the opinions in this thread, how does a ski-off proceed? Are we looking for someone with the skill to carve ice like it was corduroy even on fat boards or are we looking for someone lacking the skill to carve a narrow waisted ski that can suddenly carve ice on a fat ski?

I've lost track ...

 

[Glenn]

I'd rather reserve judgment for the slopes. Everybody is young, fit and an expert at everything on the Internet.



So, to prove or disprove the opinions in this thread, how does a ski-off proceed? Are we looking for someone with the skill to carve ice like it was corduroy even on fat boards or are we looking for someone lacking the skill to carve a narrow waisted ski that can suddenly carve ice on a fat ski?

I've lost track ...

I think the ski-off needs to include a bump run on 200cm straight skis and a boiler plate run on 120mm wide powder boards.

 

[2knees]

I'd rather reserve judgment for the slopes. Everybody is young, fit and an expert at everything on the Internet.

...

Ahh, the passive aggressive approach to dick waving

 

[riverc0il]

I know rivercoil. He doesn't blame his equipment, but always skis the right equipment for the conditions present. He's been rocking 78mm Dynastar Legends for years and those have been his skis underfoot I think every time I've skied with him.

You only ski with me on hard pack days for some reason. :???: I ski my 96mm underfoot powder boards far more often. But when its a groomer day with no chance of natural snow, I'm pulling out my 79mm if there is a chance of bumps or my 69mm if its fast hard pack all day.

Yup, we live in New England all right.

Does any one else see that everyone is right in this thread? If I was going to have only one ski, it probably would be something in the 90s. But the OP bought a fat ski to improve his groomer performance. THAT is what this thread is about!

:uzi:

 

[riverc0il]

I haven't skied anything narrower than 100mm in over a decade, so I must not be skiing right.

No one said that...

...well, entire Highway Star did.

If you've haven't tried a mix of wide/ rockered skis, but still have a strong opinion against them, no amount of talk is going to change your mind. Try before you deny.

No one is saying you can't carve on fat skis... just that they are not as good at hard pack as other models.

 

[deadheadskier]

No one is saying you can't carve on fat skis... just that they are not as good at hard pack as other models.

pretty much.

I can carve my Axioms fine on packed powder. With a good edge, I can carve them on hard pack as well, but the amount effort isn't necessarily worth it. As Highwaystar mentioned, carving hard pack on powder skis is rough on the knees. It requires far more angulation and downward pressure to accomplish than carving hard pack on a narrower ski. I'm sure rocker helps with this some, but you still will have to angulate more on a wider ski. I don't believe this is completely to do with the turning radius of the ski either. There are many Fat skis with a short turning radius, but because your boot pressure is further away from the edge, it requires more ankle roll and knee angulation to get pressure to the edge on a wide ski than a narrow ski. Physics

So what do I and pretty much everyone else I see on the hill do when I hit hard pack with powder boards? I skid my turn until I hit snow that's easier to bite into. And there's nothing wrong with that. Being able to execute skidded turns is an important skill to have.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Physics

Yes.

I dont care what quadruple-plated, titanium reinforced, kevlar tipped, uber-torsion, new rocker, blah, blah, blah nonsense the ski manufacturers come up with each year, they cant alter the physical laws of nature.


Now back to my

 

[Highway Star]

Here's some video of Dan "carving" on fat skis. It's not convincing me to ditch my midfats....

 

[Cheese]

I think the convincing type of turns are missing from this video. I'd prefer to see 180* turns, steeper terrain and his hand dragging in the snow proving the edge is holding strong against the forces of gravity. I'm not saying that he and his equipment can't do it, just that this video didn't show me the indisputable proof that a fat ski can carve. But that's just me ....

 

[BenedictGomez]

Here's some video of Dan "carving" on fat skis. It's not convincing me to ditch my midfats...

That video should be entitled, "Cruising on cruisers", not "Ripping on cruisers".

 

[deadheadskier]

Here's some video of Dan "carving" on fat skis. It's not convincing me to ditch my midfats....

yikes

turns in the bumps around the 1:10 mark = not good

 

[Black Phantom]

No pole planting? Sliding every turn?

Is this some kind of joke?

$350 to ski with this sack of potatoes? Must be a good lunch.

 

[Morwax]

Something I have not heard mentioned is tortional stiffness. Wider skis inherently have more tortional flex PERIOD! Different tools.

 

[Glenn]

I think the convincing type of turns are missing from this video. I'd prefer to see 180* turns, steeper terrain and his hand dragging in the snow proving the edge is holding strong against the forces of gravity. I'm not saying that he and his equipment can't do it, just that this video didn't show me the indisputable proof that a fat ski can carve. But that's just me ....

I'm in agreement with the above.

 

[gmcunni]

should i be embarrassed that i didn't know who dan egan was until i googled him?

 

[Glenn]

should i be embarrassed that i didn't know who dan egan was until i googled him?

I still don't know who he is. I got a lot of google results that say "top skier".

 

[gmcunni]

I still don't know who he is. I got a lot of google results that say "top skier".

yes, that's what i know now about him, he's a top skier. he's got a web site and i think he's from NH.

 

[deadheadskier]

He was in a lot of Warren Miller films back in the day.

I'm sure he's a far better skier than I overall, so my comments concerning his bump turns weren't a suggestion I can ski better than Dan.

But, he does look pretty gaperific in that bump segment. Stance is way too wide, bends over a lot at the waist etc. The vast majority of AZ members I've skied with can ski bumps better than that.

 

[atkinson]

Dan's skis are not even close to fat, nor are those skis rockered. Don't confuse the issue, HS. And don't confuse Dan for his brother John either. John knows fat is where it is at.

As for the critiques of Dan's skiing, I encourage you to go see it in real life, not a canned shot of groomers and ice bumps. He didn't get in all those Warren Miller movies for nothing. As for his "stance", it's a dance, not a fixed position. Show us your running "stance." If all the AZ bumpers you've skied with are so good, why aren't they getting movie and pro contracts?

Btw, we plant trees, not poles. Don't plant anything when you are moving fast. Also, it's "torsional", which is only one factor of many involved in how a ski performs.

I was out today on the groomers, in the woods and skiing natural snow at Castlerock on the ObSethed's. They wiggled the funky natural, and carved the groomed like butter. I was getting the skis way out there and holding just fine.

But that's not possible, according to the physics experts here.

 

[jaja111]

First off, I didn't know who the heck Dan Egan was either and the vid doesn't exactly sell the idea of $350 for the day with him (is that really true, $350? yikes.) When anyone asks me how I ski I say "proficiently", and now from that vid I can say "as good as Dan Egan". I'll have to do some more research as to who and what this guy really is.

And as far as the OP observations questions and subsequent answers from everyone, did anyone take into consideration that the OP may weigh 150lbs and the guys he saw on fats weigh 250lbs each? Weight has quite a bit to do with edge hold too, aside from design, width, camber, and importantly sharpness of the edges. Weight directly affects the shape of the ski in the snow as it changes the camber. All my friends who ski better than I do and weigh less complain of trouble on the glass. The opposite stands for those heavier (>200lbs) than me.