Fat Skis, Hard Snow

[Highway Star]

 

[riverc0il]

And as far as the OP observations questions and subsequent answers from everyone, did anyone take into consideration that the OP may weigh 150lbs and the guys he saw on fats weigh 250lbs each? Weight has quite a bit to do with edge hold too, aside from design, width, camber, and importantly sharpness of the edges. Weight directly affects the shape of the ski in the snow as it changes the camber. All my friends who ski better than I do and weigh less complain of trouble on the glass. The opposite stands for those heavier (>200lbs) than me.

Huh? Are you smoking something? That's why skis come in different lengths and constructions. Two skis of the exact same dimensions could be super stiff or a noddle depending on construction. Weight has quite a bit to do with edge hold? EH? There are a lot of light weight skiers that ski rail road tracks.

 

[BenedictGomez]

I'm sure the guy's a great skier if he was in "all those Warren Miller" films, but that Okemo bit is clearly not his best work. Were I on Okemo's marketing team, I'd pull that video from Youtube.

 

[deadheadskier]

As for the critiques of Dan's skiing, I encourage you to go see it in real life, not a canned shot on groomers and ice bumps. He didn't get in all those Warren Miller movies for nothing. As for his "stance", it's a dance, not a fixed position. Show us your running "stance." If all the AZ bumpers you've skied with are so good, why aren't they getting movie and pro contracts?
.

No offense Atkinson, but if you are trying to defend Dan's turns in those bumps, you don't know shit about skiing bumps. Those turns are terrible, even if the bumps were icy. Just because bumps are icy and spread out, doesn't mean you assume a stance that wide, jerk your tails around to find the line and waist bend because you're out of balance. And looking at those bumps, they really don't look all that icy at all. He's pushing a lot of snow around with his turns. Looks like they got top coated real recently.

Like I said, I'm sure Dan's a much better skier than I given his credentials, but he is not skiing well there at all. Maybe it was just a bad run. We ALL have bad runs. I just wouldn't want my bad runs like that captured on Youtube when I'm trying to sell $350 lessons to ski with me.

 

[steamboat1]

Were I on Okemo's marketing team, I'd pull that video from Youtube.

Absolutely pull the vid.

It pretty much shows how ridiculously flat that mountain is.

He pretty much could've just pointed the ski's down hill.

Couldn't even generate enough speed to actually have to carve.

 

[Nick]

Legendary thread indeed

 

[Nick]

 

[jaja111]

Huh? Are you smoking something? That's why skis come in different lengths and constructions. Two skis of the exact same dimensions could be super stiff or a noddle depending on construction. Weight has quite a bit to do with edge hold? EH? There are a lot of light weight skiers that ski rail road tracks.

I'm talking about the fact that the weight of the skiers seen ripping across the ice was unknown. Physics is fact and a heavier skier will apply more force down on the edge. True there may be lightweight skiers that hold edge brilliantly, but they deserve extra kudos for their skill to maintain that line is greater than the individual able to utilize brute force - weight - onto the ski.

Whether the two better skiers were on a stiffer ski or equal stiffness, if they were significantly heavier they would be having a better day on ice than the lighter skier of the same ability. Their edges will bite deeper and if they hold that bite will be able to exert greater centripetal force outward through the turn. Also, the wider the ski the less maximum "noodle" you can get from it, so it wouldn't be a smokey haze to say that in general fat skis are somewhat stiff.

I don't know, I'm just draggin it out. Everything's on the table. These topics are like motor oil debates on car forums.

 

[Glenn]

These topics are like motor oil debates on car forums.

Full synthetic, 8k change interval. Add a little around 4k to keep things happy. :lol:

 

[Morwax]

I have to admit this is an amusing thread. Anyone that adamantly believes fat rocker skis carve as well as a pair of GS or DH boards in all conditions is missing something. Try your waterskis on a nice steep run of frozen cat tracks and let me know if they chatter LOL I can see the giant clown skis flopping around in my mind.
I have to laugh when I see guys with the huge skis and a backpack with a shovel skiing nothing but frozen man made groomers and bare ground in the woods.

 

[darent]

You may be skiing "right" on your 110mm or 120mm or whatever, but you're certainly not skiing hard snow and ice conditions as well as you could be.

And frankly, I really dont understand why you're so adamant and attacking people in this thread, especially about a subject that is accepted as fact.

Sure, you can take a .50 caliber belt-fed machine gun pheasant hunting, but it doesn't mean it's the best weapon for that application.

screw the ski width, I'll tke that dog, my 20ga O/U, and carve some bird!!

 

[BenedictGomez]

screw the ski width, I'll tke that dog, my 20ga O/U, and carve some bird!!

Exactly, because a 20 gauge shotgun is a proper tool for bird hunting.

You dont bring an uzi to kill ruffed grouse, and you dont bring 120mm underfoot skis to ski firm snow and icy conditions.

 

[Black Phantom]

Dan's skis are not even close to fat, nor are those skis rockered. Don't confuse the issue, HS. And don't confuse Dan for his brother John either. John knows fat is where it is at.

As for the critiques of Dan's skiing, I encourage you to go see it in real life, not a canned shot of groomers and ice bumps. He didn't get in all those Warren Miller movies for nothing. As for his "stance", it's a dance, not a fixed position. Show us your running "stance." If all the AZ bumpers you've skied with are so good, why aren't they getting movie and pro contracts?

Btw, we plant trees, not poles. Don't plant anything when you are moving fast. Also, it's "torsional", which is only one factor of many involved in how a ski performs.

I was out today on the groomers, in the woods and skiing natural snow at Castlerock on the ObSethed's. They wiggled the funky natural, and carved the groomed like butter. I was getting the skis way out there and holding just fine.

But that's not possible, according to the physics experts here.

This is pretty funny.:-D

You really should practice your pole plants!

 

[Morwax]

Fat skis on hard snow is like tele skiing a super g course or snow boarding moguls...ya you can do it but why

 

[Sick Bird Rider]

Fat skis on hard snow is like tele skiing a super g course or snow boarding moguls...ya you can do it but why

Because you can.

 

[gmcunni]

Because you can.

well, some can. but some can't so they declare the idea of doing so idiotic to draw attention away from their own inadequacies

 

[Sick Bird Rider]

well, some can. but some can't so they declare the idea of doing so idiotic to draw attention away from their own inadequacies

Good point. Better said by you than me.

Anybody reading this thread should watch this. It's a little off-topic from the OP but shows that some people are spending a lot of time thinking about the way skis work. Not to mention the shots of Eric Pollard skiing, which are rather mind-expanding. The guy is so smooth and creative on skis, what a joy to watch:

 

[Morwax]

Good point. Better said by you than me.

Anybody reading this thread should watch this. It's a little off-topic from the OP but shows that some people are spending a lot of time thinking about the way skis work. Not to mention the shots of Eric Pollard skiing, which are rather mind-expanding. The guy is so smooth and creative on skis, what a joy to watch:

Powder park powder park park powder.. Never heard him mention hard carving once. Yes id say off topic. Title of thread "Fat skis on hard snow"

 

[Sick Bird Rider]

^^ Well, there is the segment of EP buttering groomers starting at 8:40 or so. You and I will never do that but it is pretty cool to contemplate. Or not. Suit yourself.

I give up, again.

 

[2knees]

I give up, again.

You have to remember who you are dealing with. Most here don't ski for a living. Gmcunni already nailed it.