Hybrid quandry

[mondeo]

I fear there's a smug cloud cover forming over the entire U.S. as we speak, strongest in San Francisco and VT. Let's just hope George Clooney doesn't win any more Oscars. Or Al Gore, for that matter.

 

[riverc0il]

I fear there's a smug cloud cover forming over the entire U.S. as we speak, strongest in San Francisco and VT. Let's just hope George Clooney doesn't win any more Oscars. Or Al Gore, for that matter.

I'll disagree on the statement about Al Gore, but I complete agree about hybrids being "statements" for the most part. They don't add up financially based on the current market so buying one is a bet with the timeline of gas prices. Also, they only really benefit city drivers since the gas motor kicks in at highway speeds.

 

[mondeo]

I'll disagree on the statement about Al Gore, but I complete agree about hybrids being "statements" for the most part. They don't add up financially based on the current market so buying one is a bet with the timeline of gas prices. Also, they only really benefit city drivers since the gas motor kicks in at highway speeds.

Did you get the South Park reference?

 

[riverc0il]

Nah. Don't have TV.

 

[RootDKJ]

Also, they only really benefit city drivers since the gas motor kicks in at highway speeds.

I get roughly the same when I limit my highway speed to 64mph. The way the cops have been ticketing folks in Jersey lately...this is not a bad way to drive.

 

[mondeo]

I get roughly the same when I limit my highway speed to 64mph. The way the cops have been ticketing folks in Jersey lately...this is not a bad way to drive.

But the hybrid has nothing to do with it.

 

[RootDKJ]

But the hybrid has nothing to do with it.

huh?

 

[deadheadskier]

huh?

I believe he's suggesting you would achieve the same mileage in a gas powered Escape at 64 mph as the Hybrid. Theoretically that would make sense as doesn't the electric motor disengage after 35 mph on most Hybrids such that it can recharge?

 

[RootDKJ]

I believe he's suggesting you would achieve the same mileage in a gas powered Escape at 64 mph as the Hybrid. Theoretically that would make sense as doesn't the electric motor disengage after 35 mph on most Hybrids such that it can recharge?

The gas motor turns on at 40mph, but that doesn't mean that you don't still get an assist from the electric motor when accelerating.

 

[mondeo]

huh?

The only thing the hybrid system does is recover energy during braking. On the highway, you don't brake. Therefore the reason you get the same mileage at 64 on the highway as you do in the city is that that's the point where the inherently more efficient driving style matches with the energy recovery of the hybrid.

 

[RootDKJ]

The only thing the hybrid system does is recover energy during braking. On the highway, you don't brake. Therefore the reason you get the same mileage at 64 on the highway as you do in the city is that that's the point where the inherently more efficient driving style matches with the energy recovery of the hybrid.

The gauges tell me that I get an (brief) assist when accelerating at highway speeds.

And have you seen the traffic in Jersey? I've done 30-40 mile stretches of highway mostly under 45.

 

[mondeo]

And have you seen the traffic in Jersey? I've done 30-40 mile stretches of highway mostly under 45.

There is that, but then that's not really highway driving. Highway driving is relatively constant speed. The brief assist you get while accelerating counts for nothing because all your gas is going to counteract mechanical losses and drag, not add kinetic energy.

It takes about 30 hp to keep a car going 70ish mph. 30hp=23KW. 3600lb car=1500kg, at 62.5mph=100kph, gives 580KJ. 580/23=25s. So in less than 30 seconds you've equalled the amount of energy put into the car through mechanical and aerodynamic losses.

 

[RootDKJ]

There is that, but then that's not really highway driving. Highway driving is relatively constant speed. The brief assist you get while accelerating counts for nothing because all your gas is going to counteract mechanical losses and drag, not add kinetic energy.

It takes about 30 hp to keep a car going 70ish mph. 30hp=23KW. 3600lb car=1500kg, at 62.5mph=100kph, gives 580KJ. 580/23=25s. So in less than 30 seconds you've equalled the amount of energy put into the car through mechanical and aerodynamic losses.

I should fore warn you that I drank and smoked a lot in physics class.

I've seen the avg mpg shoot up into the mid 40's in traffic jams.

All things considered, I'm glad I have a hybrid, but, depending on how much and where you drive, it doesn't make financial sense with gas in the $2 range. At $4+ it makes much more sense.

I didn't pay for mine, but for the quiet factor, and the geek factor, I'd consider getting one again.

 

[noski]

I have actually found this thread fascinating. Keep on if you like. I will dig up this thread in a few weeks and post my choice. I do know the Fusion gas kicks in at about 48mph. My battery regen will happen on my descent from 1800' to 800' daily and my around-town- driving.

 

[RootDKJ]

Wow 48mph is awesome! I like the styling on the Fusion, but need the space in the Escape for hauling stuff around.

 

[Geoff]

Todays Hybrids are "feel good technology", what we have now is not what we will see in 5 years or so, there are better systems coming down the road. What that then means, what we have now will depreciate quickly, due to outdated technology and high cost of replacement parts i.e. battery. If you want proven technology and high mileage, look to a diesel like a Jetta.

I'm not convinced that I'd want to be driving a diesel in January in the Mad River Valley. Maybe with a heated garage...

 

[noski]

I'm not convinced that I'd want to be driving a diesel in January in the Mad River Valley. Maybe with a heated garage...

They cut the diesel here in cold weather, so it is generally not a problem, but good point! Mr. noski does plug his truck in on the coldest nights though (gmc 3/4 ton, diesel).

 

[bigbog]

........

There is that, but then that's not really highway driving. Highway driving is relatively constant speed.

For a lot of people in this country, that's the majority of the type of highway driving they do.. Not out to make some major point, but I think speed is The factor when it comes to hybrids vs compact-gas_only. ...But as you and others have said, right now...price sure IS a factor.

 

[Marc]

Huh?? How much've you been smokin' mondeo?.. For a lot of people in this country, that's the majority of the type of highway driving they do.. Not out to make some major point, but I think speed is The factor when it comes to hybrids.

I think mondeo's point is, from an automotive standpoint, there is a distinction between "highway driving" and "city driving" out of convenience to deliniate two ends of the spectrum. Highway driving is typically thought of as driving at a constant and usually elevated speed. City driving is usually stop and go, or at least containing lots of speed changes.

The two terms, when used in this context, do not necessarily imply driving on one type of roadway or another, merely to differentiate between consistent and inconsistent speeds, since this has the biggest affect on gas mileage.

This is generally how the terms are regarded by the EPA, as well.

 

[bigbog]

....

No ski...
Depends on what anyone means when they say "rough terrain"!;-) If you don't work outside of society's grooming of the roads the only reason for a SUV is for cargo...imho.
Can you work on your pickup!...and tweak it...to keep it healthy to do the rougher terrain stuff for you?

Completely agree about the noise factor from the higher driver's seat!;-)..I have an older 92' Accord...the low sitting things, makes it seem like I'm traveling F1-style...actually a fun ride on occasion...except for when you get into traffic;-).
*Problem is...many cars could do a lot more work, but their body-design and city-style of tires can sometimes make it a little dicey...ie rough on the hardware.. As others have attested to...a small car, with proper tires and weight dist. and "enough" clearance can do a lot..