Permanent Industry Changes in the Post-COVID World

[Smellytele]

So I pulled this line from a post from someone else months ago

• Fully vaccinated people can resume activities without wearing a mask or physically distancing, except where required by federal, state, local, tribal, or territorial laws, rules, and regulations, including local business and workplace guidance.

So the vaccinations have created a false sense of security for many because of the messaging around it like the statement above. Yet more and more people are getting Covid after being vaccinated and there are some bad cases.

Interestingly enough, our son got Covid in basic training last summer (dragged him down for a few days), military was requiring the vaccine and he got the two Moderna doses in May - now about three and a half months later he has Covid again and he is sounding pretty bad and quarantined for a 6th time in 1.5 years.

It was known that the vaccine does not prevent you from getting Covid but the symptoms should be asymptomatic or minimal (like a cold). If that is the case, we should have stayed masked since those vaccinated could become or probably are a silent super spreader under the guise of living life as back to normal.

Many health organizations are now stating that Covid will now be like the flu and will mutate year after year. Heck in the past year there have been several mutations.

Vaccine doesn’t stop 100% of cases nor does it stop 100% from being hospitalized nor from dying. Is it better than not getting vaccinated? Yes much. 1 example does not make it useless and it people reposting 1 example (or 50) just gets more idiots to not get the shot.

 

[kbroderick]

So I pulled this line from a post from someone else months ago

• Fully vaccinated people can resume activities without wearing a mask or physically distancing, except where required by federal, state, local, tribal, or territorial laws, rules, and regulations, including local business and workplace guidance.

So the vaccinations have created a false sense of security for many because of the messaging around it like the statement above. Yet more and more people are getting Covid after being vaccinated and there are some bad cases.

Interestingly enough, our son got Covid in basic training last summer (dragged him down for a few days), military was requiring the vaccine and he got the two Moderna doses in May - now about three and a half months later he has Covid again and he is sounding pretty bad and quarantined for a 6th time in 1.5 years.

It was known that the vaccine does not prevent you from getting Covid but the symptoms should be asymptomatic or minimal (like a cold). If that is the case, we should have stayed masked since those vaccinated could become or probably are a silent super spreader under the guise of living life as back to normal.

Many health organizations are now stating that Covid will now be like the flu and will mutate year after year. Heck in the past year there have been several mutations.

The early data (based primarily on viral presence detected in the nose/throat of vaccinated and infected persons) suggested that their viral loads were low enough that they'd be unlikely to have a statistically significant impact on infections. More-recent data has suggested that, particularly with delta, those loads are high enough to be concerning, so they've updated the guidelines (again). Edited to add: of course, all of that is based on reports from generally trustworthy sources but not from peer-reviewed scientific papers, as one might expect with such a rapidly changing situation, so probably best taken with several grains of salt on the rim of a margarita glass.

Anecdotally, I'm aware of at least two breakthrough infections where a too-young-to-be-vaccinated child apparently infected a parent, who then experienced enough symptoms to affect day-to-day activities but not enough to go to the hospital (in both cases, though, the other parent was not infected). So that seems consistent with "a lot better than not getting vaccinated".

The NYT ran an article last weekend that put the current estimated risk of a breakthrough infection at between 1 in 5k and 1 in 10k depending on the overall vaccination rate in the area (i.e. on a daily basis, a vaccinated person had a risk between 1:5000 and 1:10000 of getting a breakthrough infection). If my math is right, that comes out to something like 3-7% over the course of a year. So small but certainly significant (if patrol said "there's a 7% that chute is going to slide when you ski it", I'd be taking another way down, not that it would be open, but if someone told me "there's a 3-7% chance of you getting caught in a backcountry slide this winter", that probably wouldn't keep me from getting out).

 

[skiur]

The chance for a healthy vaccinated person to catch covid and get sick is very small. To get sick enough to be hospitalized is extremely small. The chance of a healthy vaccinated person dieing from covid is almost zero. This holds true for Delta varient too. If you are healthy and vaccinated you have extremely little to worry about. As for passing it to a non vaccinated person, that is their problem, they should have gotten vaccinated.

 

[kbroderick]

The chance for a healthy vaccinated person to catch covid and get sick is very small. To get sick enough to be hospitalized is extremely small. The chance of a healthy vaccinated person dieing from covid is almost zero. This holds true for Delta varient too. If you are healthy and vaccinated you have extremely little to worry about. As for passing it to a non vaccinated person, that is their problem, they should have gotten vaccinated.

There are a few assumptions in there, some of which I might've made before having kids:

1. If you need to provide care for dependent children or adults, anything that knocks you on your ass (eg the flu, questionable sushi, mild covid, etc) becomes a problem, not just an unpleasant experience. The same is true if calling in sick to work creates serious problems for you or your employer.

2. Kids can't get vaccinated, so while I have limited sympathy for most unvaccinated adults in the US, "they should have gotten vaccinated" doesn't apply to everyone. And yes, the pediatric mortality numbers are tiny, but today doesn't mean much if your kid is in that small percentage or the slightly higher one that lands in the hospital.

 

[abc]

Kids can't get vaccinated, so while I have limited sympathy for most unvaccinated adults in the US, "they should have gotten vaccinated" doesn't apply to everyone. And yes, the pediatric mortality numbers are tiny, but today doesn't mean much if your kid is in that small percentage or the slightly higher one that lands in the hospital.

Kids are at risk of a lot of other dangers. So the risk from Covid I think is relatively minor in comparison.

One vaccinated person getting infected from their kids, passing it on to another vaccinated adult who then get sick is again a relatively small risk.

Really, the pandemic is over, except for those who aren't vaccinated. There're of course the unfortunate small group who can't get vaccinated due to medical reason, or vaccination doesn't help (immunocompromised), they'll just have to live with the risk. There're a whole lot of other diseases those folks could easily get and then be seriously sick from already. Covid is just one more.

 

[KustyTheKlown]

ya, i went to a packed club last friday, and a sold out madison square garden yesterday for an outrageous stand up comedy line up.

vax proof at the door.

happy to participate in large scale events in vaccinated nyc.

 

[dblskifanatic]

The NYT ran an article last weekend that put the current estimated risk of a breakthrough infection at between 1 in 5k and 1 in 10k depending on the overall vaccination rate in the area (i.e. on a daily basis, a vaccinated person had a risk between 1:5000 and 1:10000 of getting a breakthrough infection). If my math is right, that comes out to something like 3-7% over the course of a year. So small but certainly significant (if patrol said "there's a 7% that chute is going to slide when you ski it", I'd be taking another way down, not that it would be open, but if someone told me "there's a 3-7% chance of you getting caught in a backcountry slide this winter", that probably wouldn't keep me from getting out).

Hawaii is experiencing a little different - 1 in 10.

COVID breakthrough cases in Hawaii spiked since July

Nearly one in 10 COVID positives from Friday, July 23, to Thursday, Aug. 26, have been among fully vaccinated people. Hospitalizations are also on the rise among breakthrough cases. It is an alarmi…

www.khon2.com

Also I am not against the vaccination. We are all as ignorant as the news and science. There have been many reports of one case and things turn out a little different. My point which hit close to home. If vaccinated people can still contract covid and spread it as well, we probably should not have opened the hatches with no masks. But that narrative would not bode well in getting people vaccinated.

 

[dblskifanatic]

Kids are at risk of a lot of other dangers. So the risk from Covid I think is relatively minor in comparison.

One vaccinated person getting infected from their kids, passing it on to another vaccinated adult who then get sick is again a relatively small risk.

Really, the pandemic is over, except for those who aren't vaccinated. There're of course the unfortunate small group who can't get vaccinated due to medical reason, or vaccination doesn't help (immunocompromised), they'll just have to live with the risk. There're a whole lot of other diseases those folks could easily get and then be seriously sick from already. Covid is just one more.

Covid is never going to go away

WHO says Covid will mutate like the flu and is likely here to stay

Covid-19 could become endemic like the flu and circulate in the population at low levels.

www.cnbc.com

 

[boston_e]

Hawaii is experiencing a little different - 1 in 10.

COVID breakthrough cases in Hawaii spiked since July

Nearly one in 10 COVID positives from Friday, July 23, to Thursday, Aug. 26, have been among fully vaccinated people. Hospitalizations are also on the rise among breakthrough cases. It is an alarmi…

www.khon2.com

Also I am not against the vaccination. We are all as ignorant as the news and science. There have been many reports of one case and things turn out a little different. My point which hit close to home. If vaccinated people can still contract covid and spread it as well, we probably should not have opened the hatches with no masks. But that narrative would not bode well in getting people vaccinated.

You and kbroderick are looking at totally different numbers.

Hawaii is saying 1 in 10 positive cases have been among vaccinated that does not mean that 1 in 10 vaccinated people have contracted covid.

 

[rebel1916]

So I pulled this line from a post from someone else months ago

• Fully vaccinated people can resume activities without wearing a mask or physically distancing, except where required by federal, state, local, tribal, or territorial laws, rules, and regulations, including local business and workplace guidance.

So the vaccinations have created a false sense of security for many because of the messaging around it like the statement above. Yet more and more people are getting Covid after being vaccinated and there are some bad cases.

Interestingly enough, our son got Covid in basic training last summer (dragged him down for a few days), military was requiring the vaccine and he got the two Moderna doses in May - now about three and a half months later he has Covid again and he is sounding pretty bad and quarantined for a 6th time in 1.5 years.

It was known that the vaccine does not prevent you from getting Covid but the symptoms should be asymptomatic or minimal (like a cold). If that is the case, we should have stayed masked since those vaccinated could become or probably are a silent super spreader under the guise of living life as back to normal.

Many health organizations are now stating that Covid will now be like the flu and will mutate year after year. Heck in the past year there have been several mutations.

That's a strong mix of facts, half truths and complete BS

 

[abc]

Hawaii is saying 1 in 10 positive cases have been among vaccinated that does not mean that 1 in 10 vaccinated people have contracted covid.

Put another way, vaccinated people are 1/10 as likely to get Covid as the unvaccinated.

 

[drjeff]

Hawaii is experiencing a little different - 1 in 10.

COVID breakthrough cases in Hawaii spiked since July

Nearly one in 10 COVID positives from Friday, July 23, to Thursday, Aug. 26, have been among fully vaccinated people. Hospitalizations are also on the rise among breakthrough cases. It is an alarmi…

www.khon2.com

Also I am not against the vaccination. We are all as ignorant as the news and science. There have been many reports of one case and things turn out a little different. My point which hit close to home. If vaccinated people can still contract covid and spread it as well, we probably should not have opened the hatches with no masks. But that narrative would not bode well in getting people vaccinated.

To put some objective numbers on the Hawaii mention and COVID cases.

With the reported 10% of new cases being breakthrough. The 7 day average new cases in Hawaii is at a little over 600 per day. That would put the breakthrough new cases at about 60 a day

There are per Mayo Clinic Data, about 900,000 Hawaiians aged 18 and up, with about a 90% vaccination rate. So roughly 800,000 adult vaccinated Hawaiian's.

The breakthrough rate is miniscule, and why one has to take a minute and look at the actual big picture and not a headline often written in a way to get clicks

 

[abc]

Nothing wrong with the headline. There's a "spike" of 60/day over the previous (of single digit?)

But it's just one reader who drew the wrong conclusion that "Hawaii experiencing different"! The rest of us can read and understand it correctly.

Clearly, the vaccine is not 100% effective. But it's the same as saying just because helmet (or seatbelt) isn't 100% effective, we shouldn't bother with one..

 

[drjeff]

ya, i went to a packed club last friday, and a sold out madison square garden yesterday for an outrageous stand up comedy line up.

vax proof at the door.

happy to participate in large scale events in vaccinated nyc.

Gillette Stadium yesterday for the Patriots - Dolphins game.

No proof of vaccination required. No masks required (probably 99% of the folks I saw were maskless, and that included employees at the stadium). Probably 90% of 80,000 seats were filled.

 

[KustyTheKlown]

Gillette Stadium yesterday for the Patriots - Dolphins game.

No proof of vaccination required. No masks required (probably 99% of the folks I saw were maskless, and that included employees at the stadium). Probably 90% of 80,000 seats were filled.

im against that. and its not even that I'm particularly concerned about outdoor transmission, tho i'd rather not be shoulder to shoulder with unvaccinated people. mainly tho, I want unvaccinated people to be excluded from anything cool/fun/good. fuck the lot of them. selfish assholes who deserve nothing.

 

[abc]

im against that. and its not even that I'm particularly concerned about outdoor transmission, tho i'd rather not be shoulder to shoulder with unvaccinated people. mainly tho, I want unvaccinated people to be excluded from anything cool/fun/good. fuck the lot of them. selfish assholes who deserve nothing.

That’s a bit selfish of you, isn’t it? To exclude people who had a different view from yours.

I’d be a little bit more concerned about being shoulder to shoulder with mask less unvaccinated people who are shouting and hollering though.

 

[Andrew B.]

im against that. and its not even that I'm particularly concerned about outdoor transmission, tho i'd rather not be shoulder to shoulder with unvaccinated people. mainly tho, I want unvaccinated people to be excluded from anything cool/fun/good. fuck the lot of them. selfish assholes who deserve nothing.

So someone like my uncle who got guillian Barre from the regular flu vaccine should just go fuck himself?
I thought we were looking for more understanding in our world?

 

[KustyTheKlown]

That’s a bit selfish of you, isn’t it? To exclude people who had a different view from yours.

I’d be a little bit more concerned about being shoulder to shoulder with mask less unvaccinated people who are shouting and hollering though.

no, its not. fuck the unvaccinated. they're the selfish ones. holding back our entire society from getting back to some semblance of normal. "patriots" who have no sense of community whatsoever. fucking assholes. they can all drop dead of covid for all I care.

 

[KustyTheKlown]

So someone like my uncle who got guillian Barre from the regular flu vaccine should just go fuck himself?
I thought we were looking for more understanding in our world?

people with legitimate medical reasons to not get vaccinated are a sliver of the unvaccinated. for the most part, they're just anti-science right wing shitheads who should get fucked with a rusty metal dildo. or left wing burning man hippie assholes who also should get the rusty dildo

 

[drjeff]

no, its not. fuck the unvaccinated. they're the selfish ones. holding back our entire society from getting back to some semblance of normal. "patriots" who have no sense of community whatsoever. fucking assholes. they can all drop dead of covid for all I care.

For full disclosure, I'm vaccinated, my entire family (even the extended family) is vaccinated. They work, I'm for folks getting them.

Serious question though, how do you know that someone who may have chosen not to be vaccinated, hasn't already had COVID and recovered from it (thus obtaining antibodies that way)? Or have we just completely thrown all science out the door in favor of a piece of paper/screen on our phones, that allows one to viture signal?

Now if you wanted folks to get quality antibody tests, and have that be a sign of those who are at risk of contracting COVID, then that I would be all for.

Antibodies to COVID certainly aren't only acquired through vaccines, that is just pure unadulterated science, yet there are many who just want to completely ignore that. That is an issue