Permanent Industry Changes in the Post-COVID World

[boston_e]

^ I ran into quite some people who want to run back into their little rabbit hole they've been hiding the past 18 months despite having fully vaccinated. I don't know what to say to them except I'll have more space to roam if they don't come out!

I can’t say I know anyone who wants to go back into full quarantine. I do know people who would much prefer to attend shows or restaurants where proof of vaccination or negative test is required for entry, or don’t mind if their employer makes the vaccine mandatory or if it were added to the list of required immunizations to go to school.

 

[drjeff]

I have not figured out how to do a land crossing from Turk and Caicos which was my initial travel discussion. The point was that if the vaccine is so good then why do they want people to still test for Covid - because they possibly can get covid. So in effect we should all be wearing masks still.

Serious question for you...

Do you what the actual percentage of breakthrough COVID infections amongst the vaccinated is?

And then what is the percentage of breakthrough infections that require hospitalization?

And what is the percentage of breakthrough infections who pass away from COVID? Especially in the sub 65yr old age demographic?

Actual numbers vs perceived numbers matters if we are to have an honest conversation about this topic, rather than an emotional rant

 

[thebigo]

Come on man. ...
Grow up for Christ sake. If I wanna see useless profanity laced bickering I'll go to the SR forum

Is there still a dedicated SR forum? Address?

 

[abc]

I do know people who would much prefer to attend shows or restaurants where proof of vaccination or negative test is required for entry

I would prefer that too. Just that I wouldn't be too upset if some shows and restaurants choose not to require them (or enforce the requirement), even though I hope they all do. But I've met some who would want to force the restaurants to perform police duty so to conform to their own preference.

 

[abc]

don’t mind if their employer makes the vaccine mandatory or if it were added to the list of required immunizations to go to school.

I don't care if employer mandates vaccine. OK, I care a little bit. I prefer they offer the option of daily testing, at the employees expense. So those who feel strongly against vaccine have a choice to make, an expensive choice they could make.

Same for school too.

 

[2Planker]

Is there still a dedicated SR forum? Address?

https://sundayriverchatroom.boards.net/board/1/

 

[dblskifanatic]

I too, know 2 close friends who are double vaccinated and caught Covid afterward. Both recovered quickly and fully. 2-3 days of "cold like symptoms". The guys (who were 70+) were seen playing tennis the following week! His wife, who are also fully vaccinated, didn't even test positive.

I'm "paying attention" but I came to a very different conclusion. While breakthrough infection happens, the outcome was no worse than getting the flu. We never lock down the country for the tens of thousands of flu death every year, we shouldn't do that for Covid either. Especially not for the intentionally unvaccinated!

I agree with you 100% on this! But how will businesses, states and federal respond is the question and we can not predict that. Boston and Boston Metro is in full face mask mode for example. Yet you can sit at a bar shoulder to shoulder.

 

[dblskifanatic]

Again the vaccine provides a layer of protection against infection, but it is not 100%. Many areas are still asking people to mask up. That does not mean that vaccines are not effective or that they are not “good”

You seem to be dismissing the vaccine as useless because it is not 100% effective which is a ridiculious position to take.

No I am not - the vaccine helps to reduce symptoms and some may even be asymptomatic - also slows transmission possibly. I am vaccinated. My point was that while the vaccine has its benefits, that are many who are getting covid again. Once they have covid again they become silent or unknowing spreaders because they are inclined to go out and unknowingly spread covid because they have mild symptoms or none. Albeit the duration of the infection is possibly short so there is that at least. So the mask wearing should have continued, whereas the message was live life normally you are safe now that you have the vaccine. To be honest, I do live life normally and I did prior to the vaccines as well.

Part two - is the messaging to those who are afraid. Most of us blow it off for the most part but those who live in fear - well the latest rounds of everyone needs a mask has to be freaking them out.

 

[abc]

But how will businesses, states and federal respond is the question

Hence my assertion we have not a problem of people not vaccinated, but of a problem of the government and business response to "protect" the unvaccinated, at the expense of the vaccinated!

I almost feel like it's time for the "vaccinated left" to demand our "freedom and liberty" regardless of how many unvaccinated get sick or die!

Boston and Boston Metro is in full face mask mode for example. Yet you can sit at a bar shoulder to shoulder.

I'm actually ok with that situation. Any public space people "NEED" to get into (public transport, hospital etc) can require masks. Heck, it's a good idea even if it's not required!

A bar isn't a necessity. So I feel it should be left up to the owner to decide whether to require it or not. If I were young and healthy, I'd even visit those venues not requiring masks! But if I were 70 or have a immunocompromised person I live with, I'd choose to visit only those that require vaccine and/or mask! It's a freedom of choice for the bar owner, and a freedom of choice for the patrons. We choose where to eat and drink based on the food/drink quality and service before the pandemic. We will simply add Covid practice to that list. Nothing unusual there.

 

[dblskifanatic]

Serious question for you...

Do you what the actual percentage of breakthrough COVID infections amongst the vaccinated is? That can not be determined due to milder symptoms and others being asymptomatic where hospitalization was not needed or even covid testing was not performed.

And then what is the percentage of breakthrough infections that require hospitalization? According to the CDC's website there have been, as of Sept 7th, 14,000 + breakthrough cases that resulted in hospitalization. about a third of those resulted in death. Can we trust that number maybe and we can roll with that for now.

And what is the percentage of breakthrough infections who pass away from COVID? Especially in the sub 65yr old age demographic? According to the CDC as of Sept 7th, 85% of the deaths are +65 and the rest are younger. That being said those are not horrifying numbers, but might scare the crap out of some.

Actual numbers vs perceived numbers matters if we are to have an honest conversation about this topic, rather than an emotional rant - Actual numbers we will never know. Just like prior to the vaccine we do not have the total number either. There were a whole lot of cases at each of the spikes and we are experiencing one now where people did not get tested or had few to no symptoms. Even CDC on their website notes that the vaccine may not be effective against the mu variant which is another issue.

Responses in blue. I am not trying to say that the numbers will be crazy for those vaccinated but we will see where things go next. I am also not saying the vaccines are not effective. However, how many starts and stops happened over the past 18 months where spikes followed periods of feeling like being out of the woods where people got too comfortable. I do not really care where things go. But for those sitting on the fence - what is their perception when mask requirements are now returning for everyone.

 

[abc]

However, how many starts and stops happened over the past 18 months where spikes followed periods of feeling like being out of the woods where people got too comfortable.

The "starts and stops" are necessary because this is an unknown virus. We can't pretend we know the best course of action when we don't actually know!

I know people naturally crave certainty. But with a new virus, there is no certainty. So what people are really asking is false certainty here!

Sadly, there're plenty of people who are all too willing to provide that false certainty. And people ate it right up.

 

[dblskifanatic]

The "starts and stops" are necessary because this is an unknown virus. We can't pretend we know the best course of action when we don't actually know!

I know people naturally crave certainty. But with a new virus, there is no certainty. So what people are really asking is false certainty here!

Sadly, there're plenty of people who are all too willing to provide that false certainty. And people ate it right up.

I agree again! Unfortunately there are inconsistencies in reporting and recommended actions by CDC, WHO, US Government, Media local and national and other countries.

 

[abc]

I agree again! Unfortunately there are inconsistencies in reporting and recommended actions by CDC, WHO, US Government, Media local and national and other countries.

Some inconsistency are to be expected. With anything new, there will be some degree of uncertainty and disagreement.

And sometimes, decision needs to be made on the basis of "best guess". Naturally those guesses aren't going to be identical from one expert to another. Even mistakes are to be expected.

People want certainty so much. They need to turn to the Bible. (sigh...)

 

[dblskifanatic]

Some inconsistency are to be expected. With anything new, there will be some degree of uncertainty and disagreement.

And sometimes, decision needs to be made on the basis of "best guess". Naturally those guesses aren't going to be identical from one expert to another. Even mistakes are to be expected.

People want certainty so much. They need to turn to the Bible. (sigh...)

Hence - some have raging debates and get personal - not saying you!

 

[dblskifanatic]

Starting to spread like wild fire - more mask mandates - vaccinated included

[BREAKING] Mask mandate activated in Colorado mountain community for those aged two-plus | OutThere Colorado

A recent surge in COVID-19 case numbers has Pitkin County health officials reinstating an indoor mask mandate for those aged two or higher. According to a press release on the

www.outtherecolorado.com

 

[abc]

Hence - some have raging debates and get personal - not saying you!

This is a ski forum! Not an immunological research institute!

To pass the time in summer, it's fine to debate or even speculate for sport. Sometimes even information (or misinformation) can dribble in too. Particularly when it pertains to to coming ski season. But no need to take it too seriously. None of us are experts in the field (hint, the real experts in the field are too busy doing the research, not posting on an idle ski forum in the summer! ). So whatever got posted here are just idle thoughts.

 

[JimG.]

Our country is fucked because this is the only way people know how to talk to each other now...

So sad.

 

[JimG.]

Thanks for the riveting entertainment guys!

I'm so over all that is COVID.

 

[boston_e]

I'm so over all that is COVID.

I think we all are. Unfortunately COVID is not over with us.

 

[VTKilarney]

We need to stop treating Covid as a huge threat to anyone under 50 - and probably older than that. The people freaking out about schools being open are not following the science.

At this point anyone who wants a vaccine has had the opportunity to get one. It's too bad that there are breakthrough cases, but the vast majority are no big deal. Mine was about the most anti-climatic thing I have ever seen.

Keep things open. If you want to be a hermit - then you are free to be one. But if you want to live your life, then go ahead.

And for the love of God, stop making this political. Four out of the five top states for deaths per capita are led by Democratic governors. And yet all you hear about is Florida and Texas - neither of which are in the top 5. Florida is 10th, and when you factor in the average age of their population, they are doing even better. Texas is 23rd.

The Democrats have targeted Desantis since he is the front runner for 2024 - and they are using the pandemic as their weapon against him. That isn't going to convince anyone in Florida to get vaccinated. It actually has the opposite effect. And Biden is lashing out more and more trying to find scapegoats since his promises to get Covid under control are falling flat. Mind you, I don't think that there is much more Biden can do - but he made some lofty promises and is now feeling exposed because of it.

U.S. COVID death rate by state 2023 | Statista

As of March 2023, Arizona had the highest COVID death rate in the U.S., with 455 deaths per 100,000 population. Hawaii had the lowest death rate.

www.statista.com