Permanent Industry Changes in the Post-COVID World

[jt10000]

My point was it is none of your business to ask anyone if they had the vaccine. Maybe they recently had Covid and they are immune? It's not your business. From reading what you wrote you seem to think only vaccinated people will be indoors without masks? You do realize many States are open with no mask mandates? Many businesses are allowing people in with no masks, no vaccine proof? Some people seem to live in their own little world and not understand what's going on in other places. I couldn't care less if people from California or NY don't like what Florida or Texas and other States are doing.

This is some wild stuff and helps explain how we have over half a million people die and tens of millions be infected. in this country. Thanks for explaining it so well.

 

[EastCoastScott]

This is some wild stuff and helps explain how we have over half a million people die and tens of millions be infected. in this country. Thanks for explaining it so well.

What is it that you don't understand? Many places are open and not requiring masks or proof of vaccine. Get your shot and don't worry about what other people do. You have your opinions but the rest of us don't have to have the same.

 

[icecoast1]

Wow, you sure showed them. Did you cough in their faces as well ?

Seeing as outdoor transmission is virtually 0, I'm sure they survived

 

[jt10000]

What is it that you don't understand? Many places are open and not requiring masks or proof of vaccine. Get your shot and don't worry about what other people do. You have your opinions but the rest of us don't have to have the same.

I don't care much about opinions. I care about behavior. Give how much people may lie, it'll be great if ski areas keep requiring masks indoors until the infections rates are super-low.

 

[Smellytele]

CDC now has said mask not needed outdoors and most indoor settings. If you don't like or feel unsafe where people don't where masks don't go there or wear one yourself. I don't care if you haven't gotten the vaccine, at this point that is your choice not mine.

 

[drjeff]

I don't care much about opinions. I care about behavior. Give how much people may lie, it'll be great if ski areas keep requiring masks indoors until the infections rates are super-low.

The reality is the only behavior that you can control is yours. If you don't like something that someone else is doing, well then either don't associate with that person and/or do your thing someplace else. That is your choice. That is what you have control of.

If you want to wear a mask, or 2, or 3 or more, that is your choice and right to do so. If you don't want to go into a business where they aren't going to ask their customers to wear a mask while in/at their establishment, that is your choice.

Everyone has their own person levels of risk comfort. Just because 1 person may be more risk averse than another doesn't make 1 right and the other wrong

 

[snoseek]

This shit has been a long run. Mask are coming off...maybe not as fast as some want but they are. By the end of summer mask will probably be done everywhere pretty much.

 

[skiur]

CDC now has said mask not needed outdoors and most indoor settings. If you don't like or feel unsafe where people don't where masks don't go there or wear one yourself. I don't care if you haven't gotten the vaccine, at this point that is your choice not mine.

That about sums it up. If you feel better wearing a mask, feel free to. If you don't want to be around maskless people than stay home. I have my vaccination so I could care less if the person next to me has a mask on or if they are vaccinated. I wore masks outside all year when the science said it was not necessary and did not complain. Now my mask is coming off.

 

[abc]

CDC now has said mask not needed outdoors and most indoor settings for those vaccinated.

Fix it for you.

 

[drjeff]

Fix it for you.

That was when you were outside and within 6 feet of another person and/or where socially distancing wasn't feasible.

 

[abc]

The reality is the only behavior that you can control is yours. If you don't like something that someone else is doing, well then either don't associate with that person and/or do your thing someplace else. That is your choice. That is what you have control of.

If you want to wear a mask, or 2, or 3 or more, that is your choice and right to do so. If you don't want to go into a business where they aren't going to ask their customers to wear a mask while in/at their establishment, that is your choice.

The virus is going to do what it's going to do.

CDC's recommendation even at best, are guesses as to what's "safer" behavior. Some of those guesses turns out to be quite a bit off in hindsight. So everyone has to deal with the uncertainty their own way. If you don't feel comfortable going inside a place where people are maskless, you can choose not to go inside. That's about it. Yes, it would limit where YOU can go, But so is requiring others to wear a mask.

Plenty of people have been congregating indoors maskless. Some of them have paid the ultimate price for their choices. Others have no ill effect. Plenty of people have avoided indoor places even with mask. It's their own judgement regarding the uncertainty.

In the mean time, the virus will mutate and change. People will continue to get sick or get well (or die). It's a uncertainty we'll have to live with.

 

[abc]

That was when you were outside and within 6 feet of another person and/or where socially distancing wasn't feasible.

There's never a mask requirement outdoors except those situation, vaccinated or otherwise.

The only confusion was the CDC never made it clear how long such outdoor "close encounter" need to be that mask are recommended. Granted, they don't even know for sure.

So a lot of people are giving grief to others walking down the street/trail without mask, which is kind of overreaching.

[EDIT]
Correction to the original post which was the opposite of what I meant.

 

[dblskifanatic]

I don't get why is that a concern at all?

maybe wrong word choice. We visited some friends the other day where everyone is vaccinated and when others walked in they wanted people to wear masks. They felt safer. Some left shortly after that.

 

[dblskifanatic]

There's never a mask requirement for those situation, vaccinated or otherwise.

The only confusion was the CDC never made it clear how long such outdoor "close encounter" need to be that mask are recommended. Granted, they don't even know for sure.

So a lot of people are giving grief to others walking down the street/trail without mask, which is kind of overreaching.

there is an example of my concern going forward

 

[abc]

maybe wrong word choice. We visited some friends the other day where everyone is vaccinated and when others walked in they wanted people to wear masks. They felt safer. Some left shortly after that.

Some people want visitors to take off their shoes when they come to visit. I guess not everybody is comfortable with that either. So it's not surprising the guest may not return.

I wouldn't bother visiting those people until they're ready to take their mask off. It's not that big a deal.

 

[drjeff]

The virus is going to do what it's going to do.

CDC's recommendation even at best, are guesses as to what's "safer" behavior. Some of those guesses turns out to be quite a bit off in hindsight. So everyone has to deal with the uncertainty their own way. If you don't feel comfortable going inside a place where people are maskless, you can choose not to go inside. That's about it. Yes, it would limit where YOU can go, But so is requiring others to wear a mask.

Plenty of people have been congregating indoors maskless. Some of them have paid the ultimate price for their choices. Others have no ill effect. Plenty of people have avoided indoor places even with mask. It's their own judgement regarding the uncertainty.

In the mean time, the virus will mutate and change. People will continue to get sick or get well (or die). It's a uncertainty we'll have to live with.

The reality is that there are many people in society that have a vastly inaccurate view, for whatever reason, of what the true COVID risks to them are. And that is me not denying that COVID exists and has certainly caused/contributed to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people in this country. No question about that at all.

This is why you still see some people wearing gloves when out in public, wiping down anything and everything (including their food just bought/delivered from the grocery store, etc) when the science clearly has shown that that isn't needed, and realistically never was needed. This is why if you ask many a person what they think the risk of hospitalization if one contracts COVID is they will say a number far greater than it actually is. This is why if you ask many a person what the fatality rate of someone say over age 80 is if they contract COVID, they will say it's far greater than the actual roughly 5% mortality rate in those 80 and over that the data shows.

The amount of data that has been put forth about COVID over the last going on 18 months now, is staggering. Certainly not all of what has been put forth was either accurate from day 1, or in many cases is still what is considered the "best practices" data and/or information still as science has learned more and more about this disease process. Many in society, have chosen not to follow "today's science" and still are almost living in an incapacitating amount of fear that the media often thrust upon them back in early 2020, and that is truly a sad state of affairs for both our society, and those who simply can't see that some of what they were told about this disease process and/or they read online, just isn't true.

 

[kbroderick]

The reality is that there are many people in society that have a vastly inaccurate view, for whatever reason, of what the true COVID risks to them are. And that is me not denying that COVID exists and has certainly caused/contributed to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people in this country. No question about that at all.

This is why you still see some people wearing gloves when out in public, wiping down anything and everything (including their food just bought/delivered from the grocery store, etc) when the science clearly has shown that that isn't needed, and realistically never was needed. This is why if you ask many a person what they think the risk of hospitalization if one contracts COVID is they will say a number far greater than it actually is. This is why if you ask many a person what the fatality rate of someone say over age 80 is if they contract COVID, they will say it's far greater than the actual roughly 5% mortality rate in those 80 and over that the data shows.

The amount of data that has been put forth about COVID over the last going on 18 months now, is staggering. Certainly not all of what has been put forth was either accurate from day 1, or in many cases is still what is considered the "best practices" data and/or information still as science has learned more and more about this disease process. Many in society, have chosen not to follow "today's science" and still are almost living in an incapacitating amount of fear that the media often thrust upon them back in early 2020, and that is truly a sad state of affairs for both our society, and those who simply can't see that some of what they were told about this disease process and/or they read online, just isn't true.

a) I agree that the direct risk of death or hospitalization is relatively low to most adults.
b) The long-haul symptom risk is also low, but IMO a lot scarier.
c) Yes, there are other activities (driving comes to mind) that also have a low but non-trivial risk profile, and which we accept as part of daily life
d) All of the above overlooks the disparate impact on certain populations, particularly pregnant women. The data is still highly inconclusive, but suggests that pregnant women getting Covid are at much higher risk of serious illness and death than non-pregnant women with otherwise identical demographics; further, the risk of preterm birth is (last I read) significantly elevated.
e) The impact of Covid on vaccinated pregnant women in the small percentage that get breakthrough infections remains an unknown.
f) With the levels of community transmission in some places the combination between (e) and (d) creates, IMO, rather legitimate concern
g) Masking appears to mitigate spread, but is most effective when the spreader and spreadee are both masked; the spreadee alone wearing a mask is likely of limited effectiveness (although data is mixed, at best)

So the current CDC guideline, if followed, makes sense (keep those who are most likely to spread the disease masked when indoors and not distanced, which would allow those who are in an at-risk population or who are in regular contact with such people, to mitigate that additional risk with their own masks). But as has been made abundantly clear above, and as anyone who's been following the whole masks-as-a-political-hot-potato saga could've guessed, the overlap between those who are anti-vaccine and who will take any excuse to avoid masking is significant, and the real-world implementation of "vaccinated people need not mask indoors" is going to end up being "people won't wear masks indoors."

Given that twist, IMO it would've made sense for the CDC (and states) to continue advising and requiring (respectively) masking in indoor situations until vaccination rates were higher and transmission rates were lower. The folks at the CDC presumably have better data and a better guess at future trends than I do, though, so perhaps they think we're close enough to peak vaccination rates and the trends are going to get going in the right direction soon as a result.

 

[abc]

Many in society, have chosen not to follow "today's science" and still are almost living in an incapacitating amount of fear

That's nothing new.

Many parents won't let their kids play in the street (we used to do when we were kids), fearing their kid would be abducted by bad people. Something the media tend to overhyped.

Certain segment of society are gravitated towards risk averse behavior. That just carry over to Covid fear. Or put another way, now they have one more fear in addition to all of the ones they're "avoiding".

 

[jt10000]

CDC now has said mask not needed outdoors and most indoor settings.

Wild. It's wild that you left out something very important - particularly indoors: those recommendations are for people who are vaccinated.

If you don't like or feel unsafe where people don't where masks don't go there or wear one yourself. I don't care if you haven't gotten the vaccine, at this point that is your choice not mine.

I do care if you haven't gotten vaccinated and are indoors with other people, particularly with people I know but also with people in general. I'm allowed to care. You might not agree, but I can care and I can push politicians and stores to err on the side of caution.

 

[jt10000]

the overlap between those who are anti-vaccine and who will take any excuse to avoid masking is significant, and the real-world implementation of "vaccinated people need not mask indoors" is going to end up being "people won't wear masks indoors."

THIS. Which is bad.