PSA: 2024-2025 Ikon Renewal

[BenedictGomez]

pre-alterra: I paid around $1000 for my sugarbush pass. If I wanted to ski killington, or anywhere out west I paid out of pocket $1000’s of dollars

post-alterra: I buy 1 pass for around $1100 and I can ski a shit ton of mountains all on that pass. Skiing with my family, that is a ton of value.

This is not the, "is this long-term good for the future of skiing" argument, this is the, "is this short-term good for my pocketbook argument".

These are two very different things.

 

[djd66]

This is not the, "is this long-term good for the future of skiing" argument, this is the, "is this short-term good for my pocketbook argument".

These are two very different things.

So what is going to happen long term that could out weigh literally $1000’s of dollars I have saved since Alterra bought Sugarbush?

 

[djd66]

Days I've skied at Solitude this year = 0
Day I've skied at Jackson Hole this year = 0
Days I've skied at Alta this year = 0
Days I've skied at Crystal Mountain this year = 0
Days I've skied at Snowbird this year = 0
Days I've skied at Deer Valley this year = 0
Days I've skied at all the other IKON resorts coast-to-coast which people are currently complaining of the nouveau crowding at = 0

So you live in Utah but have not skied any of the above ski areas this year? I love PC, but why not try something else?

 

[abc]

So what is going to happen long term that could out weigh literally $1000’s of dollars I have saved since Alterra bought Sugarbush?

The question for many is rather “what is going to happen long term that could out weigh $0 I didn’t pay”?

That applies to all those who didn’t have a pass in resorts IKON bought out. They have the luxury to look at the long term.

(disclaimer: I’m not one of those who care much about the long term of the industry. I probably only have a decade of skiing left. But if I have kids who’re already in the industry, I would care more. Still, while I may not care as much, I can’t help but to notice what’s happening and can see the impact. Long term. It’s not very appealing overall. So in a sense, I’m one of those who has the luxury to look at the long term. It’s just I don’t have to make choices balancing between short vs long term)

 

[djd66]

The question for many is rather “what is going to happen long term that could out weigh $0 I didn’t pay”?

That applies to all those who didn’t have a pass in resorts IKON bought out. They have the luxury to look at the long term.

(disclaimer: I’m not one of those who care much about the long term of the industry. I probably only have a decade of skiing left. But if I have kids who’re already in the industry, I would care more. Still, while I may not care as much, I can’t help but to notice what’s happening and can see the impact. Long term. It’s not very appealing overall. So in a sense, I’m one of those who has the luxury to look at the long term. It’s just I don’t have to make choices balancing between short vs long term)

First, I didn’t pay $0.00. This past year, I bought 4 ikon passes - for around $4,000. Then I spent $$$$$ at every mountain I visited on F&B.

Again - what specifically is the long term impact?

 

[thetrailboss]

So you live in Utah but have not skied any of the above ski areas this year? I love PC, but why not try something else?

(He literally just moved here. It’s his first season.)

 

[thetrailboss]

So what is going to happen long term that could out weigh literally $1000’s of dollars I have saved since Alterra bought Sugarbush?

Saved thousands of dollars by skiing other places? You’ve probably spent more through travel, lodging, F&B, etc. That’s part of the business plan for EPKON. I’m serious. They recoup costs from selling you those things at a premium.

And you’re assuming that you would have taken those trips before IKON.

 

[KustyTheKlown]

Saved thousands of dollars by skiing other places? You’ve probably spent more through travel, lodging, F&B, etc. That’s part of the business plan for EPKON. I’m serious. They recoup costs from selling you those things at a premium.

And you’re assuming that you would have taken those trips before IKON.

I literally have spent $0 this season on any of the non skiing things sold by alterra or any other resort/operator. I’ve spent a normal amount at unaffiliated businesses associated with my skiing. Same I’ve always spent as a 45+ day/season skier.

This may be their model but plenty of us don’t play into the model and come out beating the house


Actually spend a bit less now on flights because I used to do 3 shorter western trips and now I just do one big one. One round trip flight, one 2 week turo, lots of shit motels, an ikon pass. Basis for a season.

 

[djd66]

Saved thousands of dollars by skiing other places? You’ve probably spent more through travel, lodging, F&B, etc. That’s part of the business plan for EPKON. I’m serious. They recoup costs from selling you those things at a premium.

And you’re assuming that you would have taken those trips before IKON.

Nope, all of my flights and hotels were covered by points.

I did take the trips before Ikon and had to buy day passes. That’s where I got my figures of $1000’s in savings. My trips are always me, wife and 2x kids.

 

[BenedictGomez]

you live in Utah but have not skied any of the above ski areas this year? I love PC, but why not try something else?

I've skied at every major Utah ski area before with the exception of Brighton.

PCMR is so large I really don't see or feel the need to leave yet. I'm not a big "above tree line bowl skier" fan as I think that's pretty overrated IMHO, and that's the only terrain that PCMR's lacking in relation to others. Not to mention I'm OCD and want to ski everything on the map, which will take more than 1 full-time season living here due to the size. I printed out a map & am highlighting all the runs until I've done everything. And that's the on-map stuff, I'm finding the preschool & kindergarten birthday party circuit the best place for insider info. And the trees here are positively incredible, way, way, way underrated & far better than I previously believed. And for whatever reason they hold snow forever. Perhaps it's the fact the tourist hoards who make up a big chunk of the skier base here simply don't ski trees or whatever other reason, but you can find great snow conditions in the woods here literally days after a storm.

 

[BenedictGomez]

So what is going to happen long term that could out weigh literally $1000’s of dollars I have saved since Alterra bought Sugarbush?

Again, you're missing a key bit of context in this conversation.
The vast majority of us here are talking about what this may do to the future of the sport, whereas you are focusing your opinion on what it does for you.
Yes, I know the mega-passes make skiing cheap for everyone who has one. I'm pretty sure everyone agrees on that point, but if someone disagrees please chime in. My "per day" cost to ski this year will be the cheapest in my life.

Now, what may be missed (and I think some are unaware of) is the fact they've jacked the prices on virtually every other possible expense outside of lift access (e.g. take a look at the "new" cost of children's ski lessons and you'll be shocked, or behold the $16 beer). Additionally, they've literally created new expenses where they didn't exist before (e.g. parking). But in any event, this subject is not about "me" or "you", but the sport in general. Some 60 year old lifetime skier getting cheap skiing the last 4 or 5 years is great, but s/he doesn't represent the "future". Crowding now might affect the future. Disincentivizing newbies now might affect the future, etcetera...

 

[ThatGuy]

And the trees here are positively incredible, way, way, way underrated & far better than I previously believed. And for whatever reason they hold snow forever. Perhaps it's the fact the tourist hoards who make up a big chunk of the skier base here simply don't ski trees or whatever other reason, but you can find great snow conditions in the woods here literally days after a storm.

90% of the tourists here only ski blue groomers vs the Cottonwoods where people go because they know how to ski and want good terrain. Its perfect, you can get untracked powder or soft snow for days while the groomers are shot.

 

[KustyTheKlown]

90% of the tourists here only ski blue groomers vs the Cottonwoods where people go because they know how to ski and want good terrain. Its perfect, you can get untracked powder or soft snow for days while the groomers are shot.

Definitely noticed this on my 1 day at DV last year. Powder day where Alta/bird didn’t even get open. Super busy day. But untracked tree laps til 4

 

[4aprice]

Now, what may be missed (and I think some are unaware of) is the fact they've jacked the prices on virtually every other possible expense outside of lift access (e.g. take a look at the "new" cost of children's ski lessons and you'll be shocked, or behold the $16 beer).

Yea I don't get the price of ski school either. That seems to have gotten way out of whack.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Definitely noticed this on my 1 day at DV last year. Powder day where Alta/bird didn’t even get open. Super busy day. But untracked tree laps til 4

I haven't skied Deer Valley enough to know, but I'd presume it's even worse (i.e. better) than PCMR in that regard.

 

[BenedictGomez]

90% of the tourists here only ski blue groomers vs the Cottonwoods where people go because they know how to ski and want good terrain. Its perfect, you can get untracked powder or soft snow for days while the groomers are shot.

Yeah, that was what I guessed. Even super obvious tree skiing here like The Aspens can have great snow a few days after a storm. Something as visible & obvious as The Aspens wont be untracked of course, but it also wont be completely mashed down & destroyed like it would be at most places.

 

[BenedictGomez]

I don't get the price of ski school either. That seems to have gotten way out of whack.

It's bonkers.

Politically, so Vail isnt called the Devil I presume, they run one affordable kid's clinic for locals per ski season that isn't egregiously priced, but nothing that's all season long. One session a week for five weeks for 3 & 4 years old, and one session a week for ten weeks for 5 and up. The 5 session program is $649, which I think it quite reasonable.

But here's the thing, it's more competitive getting your kid into one of those than trying to get Taylor Swift tickets on Ticketmaster.

Thank God a nice lady who works at PCMR told me I need to find out the day they go on sale & to log into my Vail Resorts account on your computer & buy at exactly the time they go on sale because it will sell out the same day. Now, CLEARLY given how hard it is to get your kid in, Vail KNOWS there's serious demand for local's kids clinics. But do they add more slots? Nope. Why? Because they can charge the tourist's kids WAY more. The same session for tourists is $370 PER session, and they fill em'.

TLDR: Screw the local kids, there's big money to be made here. In Vail's mind they're losing $250 per session per child "wasting time" teaching local kids.

 

[djd66]

It's bonkers.

Politically, so Vail isnt called the Devil I presume, they run one affordable kid's clinic for locals per ski season that isn't egregiously priced, but nothing that's all season long. One session a week for five weeks for 3 & 4 years old, and one session a week for ten weeks for 5 and up. The 5 session program is $649, which I think it quite reasonable.

But here's the thing, it's more competitive getting your kid into one of those than trying to get Taylor Swift tickets on Ticketmaster.

Thank God a nice lady who works at PCMR told me I need to find out the day they go on sale & to log into my Vail Resorts account on your computer & buy at exactly the time they go on sale because it will sell out the same day. Now, CLEARLY given how hard it is to get your kid in, Vail KNOWS there's serious demand for local's kids clinics. But do they add more slots? Nope. Why? Because they can charge the tourist's kids WAY more. The same session for tourists is $370 PER session, and they fill em'.

TLDR: Screw the local kids, there's big money to be made here. In Vail's mind they're losing $250 per session per child "wasting time" teaching local kids.

try not to take this in the wrong way,… the hell with the ski school, ski with your kids and teach them yourself. I did that with my kids and those were some of my best memories (and rewarding) just taking my kids out and skiing with them. You live at a premier resort, find a couple of Dads to form a group and take them out every weekend.

there is no other sport like skiing- where adults and kids can ski together and everyone has fun.

 

[abc]

there is no other sport like skiing- where adults and kids can ski together and everyone has fun

You can teach your own kids base ball, soccer, or whatever just the same!

My Dad taught me table tennis. I progressed quick enough to gave him the run around! He would have had fun teaching me other sports he plays too. But I got rather good at badminton. He wisely choose not to play against me. We had fun doing some BMX stuff together though

 

[abc]

I literally have spent $0 this season on any of the non skiing things sold by alterra or any other resort/operator. I’ve spent a normal amount at unaffiliated businesses associated with my skiing. Same I’ve always spent as a 45+ day/season skier.

This may be their model but plenty of us don’t play into the model and come out beating the house


Actually spend a bit less now on flights because I used to do 3 shorter western trips and now I just do one big one. One round trip flight, one 2 week turo, lots of shit motels, an ikon pass. Basis for a season.

In the end, there’s one business model. It benefits some and punishes others.

If you happen to be in the benefit group, you love it. Others, not so much. What’s astonishing is one group couldn’t fathom there’re others NOT LIKE THEM!