Rate the Changes to Sugarbush? Good or Bad?

[ThinkSnow]

I was just up at the Bush this past weekend, and I gotta say the snow was fantastic! 12+ inches for Saturday morning. I was reading the Sugarbush/MRV message board, but it wouldn' t let me log in, so I thought I'd post here. I've been skiing/riding Sugarbush for 20+ years, and I must say that I am not happy with some of the current changes.

Bag Police. Need I say more? Not one ski area I know of has a Big Brother approach to boot bag management. If you provide enough space for the bags, they shouldn't be a problem, right? The way the Bush will now move bags for you is very disconcerting, and NOT the Sugarbush that I've been going to for years.

Then there is the tiny, cramped bag/locker room where you are supposed to put your bags. I elbowed at least one or two people accidentally just trying to drop off my bag, so the police wouldn't move it. BAD DESIGN.

On the MRV message board, someone had mentioned that the new Gatehouse needs a fireplace, but Win said they weren't given a permit for it. Well the old Castlerock Pub DID HAVE a gas fireplace on the end wall facing the Valley House. So what's up with that? Will that be an addition down the road when they also realize that the kitchen for the Gatehouse is bigger than the seating area, and have to re-enlist the use of the tent?

Then there is the Valley House-- or what is left of it. Not only was the Gatehouse overcrowded, but the Valley house was completely unoccupied by any form of Sugarbush employees. Why can't that building still be used for the season, since the new "Family Center" isn't up yet? Throwing everyone into the Gatehouse to eat lunch seems like a sure-fire way to get visitors to never come back. And I'm not forgetting about Timbers. I went there for lunch.....went to the bar, stood there for at least 5 minutes, and not once did any of the 3 bartenders say hello, or let us know that we were noticed. And it wasn't even busy.

I would have easily gone to North for lunch had the Slide Brook Express been running, but from what I heard it wasn't running "yet" since they hadn't gotten it permitted yet for this season. What are they waiting for? It is late January.

Now I do realize that they are in the process of some much needed changes at the Bush, but how much of this was really, I mean REALLY thought out?

 

[noski]

I
I would have easily gone to North for lunch had the Slide Brook Express been running, but from what I heard it wasn't running "yet" since they hadn't gotten it permitted yet for this season. What are they waiting for? It is late January.

http://forums.skimrv.com/viewtopic.php?t=685 posted on 1/20 by Win: "We were planning to run Slide Brook Express tomorrow, but the wind tore the com line, and we aren't going to be able to get it fixed in time to run it tomorrow. That is a bummer with 100% of the trails open, so we will have to use the shuttle to get between mountains." What you "heard" is not correct.

 

[ThinkSnow]

Thanks

Thanks for the correction. As I did mention, the MRV site wasn't letting me in, so I only read a bit, and then came here to post.

 

[Greg]

Thanks for the correction. As I did mention, the MRV site wasn't letting me in, so I only read a bit, and then came here to post.

I PM'd you about this. I activate account manually to keep the spam down. Which one do you want to keep?

 

[ThinkSnow]

Mrv

 

[Greg]

Mrv

No. I mean you registered five accounts over there. Which one do you want to keep? The same as the one here? "ThinkSnow"?

 

[trailertrash]

IBag Police. Need I say more? Not one ski area I know of has a Big Brother approach to boot bag management. If you provide enough space for the bags, they shouldn't be a problem, right? The way the Bush will now move bags for you is very disconcerting, and NOT the Sugarbush that I've been going to for years.

Then there is the tiny, cramped bag/locker room where you are supposed to put your bags. I elbowed at least one or two people accidentally just trying to drop off my bag, so the police wouldn't move it. BAD DESIGN.

wow, i hope more mtns start moving bags. they do have to provide space for them though, you can't do one with out the other.

 

[KingM]

Now I do realize that they are in the process of some much needed changes at the Bush, but how much of this was really, I mean REALLY thought out?

The problem with major changes is that, with every situation unique, I'm sure there are some things that will seem obvious after the fact, but were simply not foreseen. Most of what you discussed sounds like growing pain issues that will eventually be worked out.

 

[win]

I was just up at the Bush this past weekend, and I gotta say the snow was fantastic! 12+ inches for Saturday morning. I was reading the Sugarbush/MRV message board, but it wouldn' t let me log in, so I thought I'd post here. I've been skiing/riding Sugarbush for 20+ years, and I must say that I am not happy with some of the current changes.

Bag Police. Need I say more? Not one ski area I know of has a Big Brother approach to boot bag management. If you provide enough space for the bags, they shouldn't be a problem, right? The way the Bush will now move bags for you is very disconcerting, and NOT the Sugarbush that I've been going to for years.

Then there is the tiny, cramped bag/locker room where you are supposed to put your bags. I elbowed at least one or two people accidentally just trying to drop off my bag, so the police wouldn't move it. BAD DESIGN.

On the MRV message board, someone had mentioned that the new Gatehouse needs a fireplace, but Win said they weren't given a permit for it. Well the old Castlerock Pub DID HAVE a gas fireplace on the end wall facing the Valley House. So what's up with that? Will that be an addition down the road when they also realize that the kitchen for the Gatehouse is bigger than the seating area, and have to re-enlist the use of the tent?

Then there is the Valley House-- or what is left of it. Not only was the Gatehouse overcrowded, but the Valley house was completely unoccupied by any form of Sugarbush employees. Why can't that building still be used for the season, since the new "Family Center" isn't up yet? Throwing everyone into the Gatehouse to eat lunch seems like a sure-fire way to get visitors to never come back. And I'm not forgetting about Timbers. I went there for lunch.....went to the bar, stood there for at least 5 minutes, and not once did any of the 3 bartenders say hello, or let us know that we were noticed. And it wasn't even busy.

I would have easily gone to North for lunch had the Slide Brook Express been running, but from what I heard it wasn't running "yet" since they hadn't gotten it permitted yet for this season. What are they waiting for? It is late January.

Now I do realize that they are in the process of some much needed changes at the Bush, but how much of this was really, I mean REALLY thought out?

I appreciate the feedback. The Valley House is still available for brown bagging, but we are not running food service from there any more and plan to tear it down next summer. We do plan to construct our second lodge which will house all of our guest services: day care, the adventure learning center (ski & ride), repairs and rental, guest services and we will also most likely have some more boot storage and some additional cafeteria dining. I will look into lack of attention at Timbers. That is not acceptable. As far as Slide Brook, the tram authority requires that we have enough snow depth to get evacuation equipment to the lift. There was enough after Saturday's snow fall and we planned to run it on Sunday, but Saturday's wind tore off a communication line and we weren't able to get it fixed for Sunday, but it will be ready for this weekend. We are also building more shelving for more storage in the Gate House. Actually a number of ski areas do not allow bags in the dining areas. They take up needed seating. The lack of a fireplace had nothing to do with permitting, it was just our decision not to put one in.

I do think you will see the flow improve not only this year but as the second lodge comes on stream. There is more seating now than there was in the past. Nevertheless, we will watch and adjust as needed.

 

[bvibert]

Thanks for chiming in Win, I knew you would.

I think not allowing bags to clutter up the seating area is an excellent idea, as long as there's sufficient/convenient space for ones bags elsewhere.

 

[ThinkSnow]

Win-- Thanks for the clarity. You mention that the Valley House will be razed this summer. Does that mean the new Family Center will be up and running for next season, to be able to handle the expected volume? Or will the proposed extension of the Valley House Double come first?

 

[billski]

Great!

Hey Thinksnow, I'm absolutely on the other side of the street from you on this one. I was there on Friday with two skier buddies who are architects, one of whom designed Wachusett base facility. We all agreed that SUGARBUSH DID IT RIGHT this time. I've been to over 50 major resort lodges around the world in the past 30 years, and watched many of them transform facilities over time. We make it a hobby of observing and critiquing infrastructure. Let me tell you the things they did right, starting with your first gripe.

1. Bag Police - I LOVE IT. Most people so inconsiderately drop their bags, they get kicked around making it difficult to walk and to sit. People leave them on tables, halls, doorways, etc. Hey, you ski/board? I am sure you are physically fit to go downstairs. I make it a point to only to drop off my bag and pick it up at the end of day.

2. Egress - you only climb stairs once when you enter. Coming and going from the slopes - piece of cake! Love the double doors.

3. Wireless Internet - awesome

4. Focus on the ski experience - there are no ancillary services in the main lodge level. Excellent.

5. Materials - flooring is excellent - no more falling on my kister.... Tables are good and durable. I wouldn't suggest putting tables together in such long lengths on a busy day however.

6. Staff - I have never seen so many people - they must have hired-up and coached them well. Best attitude I've ever seen. Extremely helpful. No crabapples. Glad to see people hovering around as we left. And... none of them seemed like they were trying to sell me something.

7. Easy to access; I like the expanded menu items. Chili was excellent. The cook crew needed a bit more cross-training on stations so they could fill in.

8. Ticketing - piece of cake, very helpful when I handed them my sugarcard voucher to explain how it works. But my photo is still ugly....

9. Bathrooms - not only ample, but took after airports and other areas with doorless entryways and motion detection plumbing.

10. Loved the pedestrian courtyard that is developing.

11. Very classy pub, lots of room. I suspect the service issue you had was an anomaly, since everywhere else I went I got plenty of attention.

12. I'm excited to see the next building come online.

You know, I didn't even know a new lodge was being built. All the marketing material I received was about the hotel. We went in the hotel and restaurant to check it out. Class act. Yeah, you brownbaggers won't go there, but hey, when you get to my age, you'll appreciate some of the amenities.

We did notice lack of a fireplace, but you know, it's a nice-to-have, not a have-to-have. Fireplaces (I love them) are quite inefficient space hogs, only about 20 people can squeeze around them in the round, and nobody else gets to enjoy them.

Contrast this to Stowe, where I went the next day. Everything about Stowe was about trying to sell you something. For God's sake, even their ice sculpture was of their mega monster base. (I go to Stowe a lot, but I'm coming to like Sugarbush's management much, much more.)

Win, thanks for commenting on Slidebrook. We could never figure out why/when it would operate.


So I'd give the Bush a lot of credit, they've come far. Sure, lots of transitional issues and startup problems, but they seemed to pale when you compare against issues in other places.

I'd say they gave it a LOT of thought. And I like what is coming.

No axe to grind, no vested interest; an interested observer.
Bill

 

[Birdman829]

The only beef I have is that the new lodge seems to be wayyyy too small. The locker room has very narrow aisles and not nearly enough space in general. Finding a table in the lunch area was also quite an adventure. I'd like to know whose idea it was to arrange the tables long and packed together like a prison mess hall. A bit tough to navigate with ski boots when its crowded.

 

[smootharc]

Thinking things out....

Now I do realize that they are in the process of some much needed changes at the Bush, but how much of this was really, I mean REALLY thought out?

....seems to be covered. A building almost TWICE the size of Gate House is scheduled to join the base area....and, at least on paper, should take some "pressure" off GH lodge.

http://www.lincolnpeakvillage.com/guestservicecenter/

Perhaps Win could let us know:

-If there will maybe be space for brown bagging in the Guest SC facility ?

-Will ski school kids eat / warm up at Guest SC instead of GH ?

-The lockers sound good. Will there be a seasonal ski locker rentals/room ? Lots of areas used to have them.

Anyways....it's easy to forget the new base village has only been open for I think about 6 weeks.

 

[ThinkSnow]

Thanks for the input, but please don't make assumptions about what I mentioned.

My gripe is not that they were starting a new policy about the bags, it was the manner in which it was being enforced, with limited facilities to handle the baggage. It should have been enforced in a much nicer way. Not a nice color on management.

Because you claim to be "older" and have been to "50 lodges in the past 30 years," please don't assume that you have more knowledge of "amenities." I have been skiing at Sugarbush for the past 20+ years and have seen various management do good things and bad things, as I no doubt will in the future. I am not an architect, but I do ski quite a bit. I work in the ski industry, both as Travel Agent & Patroller-- I hear what other people are saying-- a LOT of other people-- not just the architects patting their own backs.

I wanted to have my voice heard, because Sugarbush actually means something to me.

 

[midweeker]

I stopped going to Stowe when it became obvious that their only interest was separating me from my money.It seems most ski areas now want to become mega resorts where you are amenitied to death and charged out the wazoo. All these developers think "high end" and price themselves accordingly. I haven't been to the Bush since the new crew moved in but from what I have heard, the hand writing is on the wall. Truthfully, for the last 2 seasons I have hit both sides of Vermont but have avoided the Green($$$$)Mountain state like it had the plague.

 

[thetrailboss]

I do like what Burke has done with their bag policy at the Sherburne Lodge....free check and easy to use. It has helped prevent theft and made for more room. Also means you get some interaction with the staff. People who don't follow the rules get a laminated card placed on their items asking them to use the check.

 

[KingM]

I like it, myself, right down to the controversial "silo."

It seems most ski areas now want to become mega resorts where you are amenitied to death and charged out the wazoo. All these developers think "high end" and price themselves accordingly.

That's the travel industry in general. There's just so much more money to be made in catering to a high-end clientelle than in catering to the budget traveler. To be fair to the ski industry, building a resort, golf course, etc., is a way to cushion against the snow disaster years (like December, 2006, for example) by diversifying.

I haven't been to the Bush since the new crew moved in but from what I have heard, the hand writing is on the wall.

I don't understand this. You may or may not care for the new village going up, but the trails themselves haven't changed at all. About the only way the skiing experience itself has changed in the last few years is that the snowmaking has improved significantly. And yes, the price has crept up, but no more than anywhere else.

 

[midweeker]

=
I don't understand this. You may or may not care for the new village going up, but the trails themselves haven't changed at all. About the only way the skiing experience itself has changed in the last few years is that the snowmaking has improved significantly. And yes, the price has crept up, but no more than anywhere else.

It's a dollar decision. I allot x $ per year for skiing. My goal is to maximize my ski days. I can hit Cannon, Whiteface, Gore and a few others far cheaper than I can Stowe and the Bush.Factored into the equation is the comparative cost of food and lodging.Vermont is really way overpriced for the skiing experience that it provides. Each season I try work in a B.C. trip and a trip west. Occasionally, if conditions are right and the price is good, I visit Europe.

If I lived within a commutable distance to either place, I would look at it differently.All things considered, my dollars go further elsewhere.

 

[thetrailboss]

Factored into the equation is the comparative cost of food and lodging.Vermont is really way overpriced for the skiing experience that it provides.

That is because of the "Vermont Premium" I guess. Kind of like VT Maple Syrup....people pay more for the "image" and the idea that it is "Vermont." This really hurts the locals...especially those who have grown up in VT.