Skidder or Carver?

[billski]

noise

Apparently our one edge of smaller length pushes more snow then 2 edges of longer length. And since its a wide board the sound resonates way louder then a ski so it sounds louder so it must be worse.. I believe sound is in direct relatation to the amount of snow "pushed"

From what I know about acoustics, you've got more total area, that produces lower frequencies (notes), much like drums - the larger the drum, the lower the note. I don't think boards are any louder (in decibels). Lower notes travel further, thus seeming to amplify the sound.

Skidding on skis sounds just as bad to me as skidding on a board. Take the analogy of waxing your skis or board. When you go to scrape off the excess, the same amount comes off whether you use a 1" tall scraper or a 4" tall scraper. If the snow is deep, you're likely not to push the snow down. If it 's groomed, the board can push a bit more due to the height, but skiers have the "gillette razor effect" of multiple plows, similar to highway roads -they can clear it with one large mother blade, or a chain-gang of smaller blades one behind the other.

That's how I reach my conclusion about it being an even match. Then again, I am sure there are others who have studied this much more than I.

 

[dmc]

From what I know about acoustics, you've got more total area, that produces lower frequencies (notes), much like drums - the larger the drum, the lower the note. I don't think boards are any louder (in decibels). Lower notes travel further, thus seeming to amplify the sound.

I can crank the head of my largest drum to be higher pitched then my smallest drum..
It would sound like crap - but I could do it...

just from listening - boards have a lower frequency - so your probably correct..

 

[billski]

I can crank the head of my largest drum to be higher pitched then my smallest drum..
It would sound like crap - but I could do it...

just from listening - boards have a lower frequency - so your probably correct..

but you can't lower the note of a small drum beyond a certain point - there is a physical limit. I'd also suggest that the "tension" or at least rigidity of skis and boards is similar.

 

[dmc]

but you can't lower the note of a small drum beyond a certain point - there is a physical limit. I'd also suggest that the "tension" or at least rigidity of skis and boards is similar.

Interesting...

I believe that skis are probably more tortionally "tense" then boards.. Especially when compared to "park" decks..

How would the tortional differences affect the sound?

 

[billski]

flex

Interesting...
How would the tortional differences affect the sound?

You answered your own question - the tighter the drum skin ("torsional rigidity" or "flex"), the higher(relatively) the pitch.

I just don't know if average intermediate-level (for comparison's sake) boards have more or less flex than skis. Of course skis are all over the map with flex characteristics, from powder(high flex) all the way to GS(low flex), so I expect boards to have a similar continuum of models to choose from. We're probably spitting hairs over this one though, the sound will be the same to most of us.

 

[dmc]

You answered your own question - the tighter the drum skin ("torsional rigidity" or "flex"), the higher(relatively) the pitch.

I just don't know if average intermediate-level (for comparison's sake) boards have more or less flex than skis. Of course skis are all over the map with flex characteristics, from powder(high flex) all the way to GS(low flex), so I expect boards to have a similar continuum of models to choose from. We're probably spitting hairs over this one though, the sound will be the same to most of us.

the trippy musician side of me loves this whole thread now...

 

[sledhaulingmedic]

the trippy musician side of me loves this whole thread now...

Let's take it a step further: The skis being narrow (relative to length) will tend (assume same construction) to by more resonant around a narrow band of fequencies (Higher "q") than a board of the same length which will be resonant in a wider range of frequncies (lower "q").

Now, there are obviously a lot of other factors that come into play, however, it would seem that a board would be easier to get to resonate, but, theorhetically, not as loud. The Skis would harder to get to resonate (you have to hit the right frequency) but would be louder when you did.

I'm also going to venture a guess that because a greater percentage ot the base remains in contact with the snow (on the skis) that the snow has a greater damping effect on the skis than on a board.

 

[Vortex]

I think your trying to say "side slipping" the side of the board is perpendicular to the fall line thus pushing the snow straight ahead. But side slipping can be accomplished without plowing a lot of snow too. I see skiers push as much snow when they are plowing to slow down.

I think you have what I ment. It was not a blast. My point is skiers do it also. My issue is not with boarders or skier who don't push the snow. Its the evil snow trashers.:razz:

 

[billski]

Let's take it a step further: The skis being narrow (relative to length) will tend (assume same construction) to by more resonant around a narrow band of fequencies (Higher "q") than a board of the same length which will be resonant in a wider range of frequncies (lower "q").

Now, there are obviously a lot of other factors that come into play, however, it would seem that a board would be easier to get to resonate, but, theorhetically, not as loud. The Skis would harder to get to resonate (you have to hit the right frequency) but would be louder when you did.

I'm also going to venture a guess that because a greater percentage ot the base remains in contact with the snow (on the skis) that the snow has a greater damping effect on the skis than on a board.

You are onto something now. there are actually two sounds in play at the same time. The edge, against the snow, and then the resonating sound of the board itself. As you say, the ski has less opportunity to resonate and be heard than the board.

It's all in the perception. I will say however, to a newbie, hearing a board skidding at you from behind is a lot more scary sounding than skis, even though both are equally dangerous. Kinda like big SUV's versus the Prius. Both can kill you, one just seems more intimidating.

 

[sledhaulingmedic]

You are onto something now. there are actually two sounds in play at the same time. The edge, against the snow, and then the resonating sound of the board itself. As you say, the ski has less opportunity to resonate and be heard than the board.

It's all in the perception. I will say however, to a newbie, hearing a board skidding at you from behind is a lot more scary sounding than skis, even though both are equally dangerous. Kinda like big SUV's versus the Prius. Both can kill you, one just seems more intimidating.

I believe (not that I have any research here, but a bit of a trained ear) that boards generally resonate at lower frequencies and a broader range of frequencies (probably including harmonic content) which make them sound "bigger", even if their sound measures the same on an SPL meter.

PS: Prius' scare me. Too quiet. They can sneak up on you. Never mind the 380 volt batteries. (All I know is "Don't cut the orange wire!")

 

[billski]

I believe (not that I have any research here, but a bit of a trained ear) that boards generally resonate at lower frequencies and a broader range of frequencies (probably including harmonic content) which make them sound "bigger", even if their sound measures the same on an SPL meter.

PS: Prius' scare me. Too quiet. They can sneak up on you. Never mind the 380 volt batteries. (All I know is "Don't cut the orange wire!")

I recall reading about a group of blind folks who was petitioning Toyota to put "noisemakers" of some kind onto the Prius.

 

[bvibert]

Back on topic... I consider myself a skarver... Basically use whatever works to get down the hill.

 

[sledhaulingmedic]

Back on topic... I consider myself a skarver... Basically use whatever works to get down the hill.

Stop it! You interupted an outstanding hijack!

 

[bvibert]

Stop it! You interupted an outstanding hijack!

:lol: You guys did do a good job of deviating from the original topic. What the hell was I thinking by interrupting you???

 

[drjeff]

To help out bvibert, as my wife puts it when she skiis behind me, "you don't carve, you TRENCH" (LOVE my Atomic B5 Metrons for this )

Me, groomed, carve, crud non bumped carve, bumps/trees skid, powder = float