Talk to me about Avalanche Safety and Gear

[thetrailboss]

Well, since we are moving to Utah, we're going to need some training and gear for avalanche safety. Even though Alta/Snowbird do pretty thorough avalanche control, lots of the good terrain will require a beacon/transceiver, shovel, and other things for avalanche. Snowbird says that they are on the Recco System. Anyone have any experience with that system? Good? Bad? Any pointers for what to get or what to look for? What about courses? Snowbird has the Wasatch Backcountry Training Center with a transceiver training ground near the Cliff Lodge. Any other good courses? And what about the Avi-Lung system I have seen mentioned? Good idea?

And feel free to move this to gear if needed. I figured we needed some ski talk....

 

[snoseek]

Recco is great for finding a dead corpse IMO.....

just take an avy course and pay attention. I don't know anyone that carries avy equipment inbounds but i suppose...

 

[thetrailboss]

Recco is great for finding a dead corpse IMO.....

just take an avy course and pay attention. I don't know anyone that carries avy equipment inbounds but i suppose...

Ok good to know, re need for beacon. Want to do stuff in bounds or just outside of ropes this coming season. N
Nothing too wild.

 

[snowmonster]

Take a course. There's no substitute. Lots to learn about snow science. Read Tremper's "Staying Alive in Avalanche Terrain" during the summer for a good intro.

Basic avy gear: beacon, shovel and probe. Know how to use all these gadgets. After you learn how to use them, do drills finding your beacon. Do not go solo (I know I break this rule all the time). Your gear is useless unless someone is there to find you and dig you out. Get a backpack with an avalung. It'll buy you time in case of avies or NARSID (falling into a treewell). From what I remember, you need a ski backpack anyway.

If you already have a jacket with Recco, wear it for whatever it's worth. In the event of an avalanche, your best rescue is from your partner. If you're relying on ski patrol with Recco and the victim is found after 15 minutes, you're digging up a popsicle.

 

[snoseek]

Anything beyond the ropes I would suggest having the gear and knowing how to use it. I break this rule all the time. I am super paranoid about treewells personally. There is some great touring in your backyard so your gonna want to get in on the training for sure!

 

[lolkl]

I wear my beacon and carry my shovel pretty much every time out. Why not? The shovel makes wonderful spine protection. BTW, get a metal shovel. Make your friends get metal shovels. If shit has hit the fan, do you want to use a plastic shovel? I suppose they work in powder but if something really happens you are going to want something strong. Like mentioned earlier, Recco will be good for finding your coat in the Spring. Go and seek out some ski patrollers. They're always a good source of info on the better classes as well as used gear. Good judgement will serve you better than high tech. Even though they do a lot of avalanche work inbounds.... better to be safe and prepared.

 

[lloyd braun]

go take a avy course. listen and learn. After you take your course, find some friends with expierence to travel the back country with, learn from them!

be careful. I lost a great friend on 4/4 of this past winter. Avys kill!

Jay

 

[Nick]

Anything beyond the ropes I would suggest having the gear and knowing how to use it. I break this rule all the time. I am super paranoid about treewells personally. There is some great touring in your backyard so your gonna want to get in on the training for sure!

+1 on the treewells. When I went heli-skiing in 2003 they totally freaked me out on them.

 

[Nick]

Question; outside of Mt. Washington, is there any other real high risk areas in New England for avalanches? Seems like it is (for great reason) most likely to happen above the tree line.

What about OOB at any local resorts? Any real "risky" areas?

 

[AdironRider]

Question; outside of Mt. Washington, is there any other real high risk areas in New England for avalanches? Seems like it is (for great reason) most likely to happen above the tree line.

What about OOB at any local resorts? Any real "risky" areas?

Erase that above treeline thought from your mind completely.

All of the slides in the ADK come to mind.

 

[snowmonster]

Question; outside of Mt. Washington, is there any other real high risk areas in New England for avalanches? Seems like it is (for great reason) most likely to happen above the tree line.

Katahdin, the Adirondacks and the rest of the Presidentials/Whites are prime avalanche areas. I would also say that any snowfield or backcountry terrain between 25 and 45 degrees should be treated as potential avy territory. All you need is the right combo of snowfall/weather/snow ageing/windloading/terrain and you're off to the races. If you get enough of a snowpack and a weak layer underneath, then any above treeline area or even wide open ungroomed ski slope is avy prone.

However, if they groom the mountain to death then you should be safe. Thus, a beacon is not necessary at the Mighty Wa!

What about OOB at any local resorts? Any real "risky" areas?

Was it Hunter or Stowe that blew so much snow that it avalanched?

As far as inbounds, with the right combination of factors, I would consider the Slides at Whiteface, the backside snowfields at the Loaf and the snowfields at Saddleback as potential avy territory. OOB, I think the backside of Stowe and Big Jay merit inclusion.

 

[Nick]

Thanks guys, really informative, I've only every considered avalanche threats a Tuckerman's ravine / anything out west kind of threat. Good to keep it real and put some perspective on it!

 

[snowmonster]

There was an avalanche in the Gulf of Slides last season that took one of the T4T regulars for a good swim. He was lucky to just pop out of it. Unnerving. It happened in one of the lower angled areas called the Sandbox. I was once standing on the deck of HoJo's and saw a cornice on Dodge's Drop rip off and take down two climbers. Yes, it also avalanches in the East.

Tux is most avy prone in the winter. However, most skiers head there in late April or May when the bigger danger is icefall. Lunch Rocks is directly in the path of ice crashing from the Lip. I had two close calls with falling ice last year: once at Tux and another at Monroe Brook. Head's up.

Actually, I should add that icefall is a real danger in the Loaf snowfields. If you hike to the backside and it's warming, resist the temptation to head to the summit radio shack and rest. Stay clear. I was there in March and the combo of warming temps and high winds (what else is new at the Loaf) shook huge blocks of ice off the antenna and it came crashing down on where I was standing two minutes earlier.

 

[x10003q]

Holiday Valley's Wall slid Jan, 2007.
Holiday Valley Avalanche

At Gore Mtn Rumor slid about 7-8 years ago.

Snowmaking was part of the reason in both cases.

 

[Geoff]

I've gone through 3 or 4 books on snow safety. I've done the transponder training quite a few times before getting in a helicopter or snow cat. I've learned enough to know that I'm not competent to predict whether a slope steeper than 30 degrees will slide or not. I've done a lot of unpatrolled side country in South America. I keep it to 30 degrees. I insist people go 1 at a time. I insist that nobody skis above me. If somebody ignores any of that, that's the last time I ever ski sidecountry with them.

 

[wa-loaf]

 

[Nick]

That video freaks me out. Although it's wierd they use it as a business video. haha.

Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk

 

[snoseek]

I've gone through 3 or 4 books on snow safety. I've done the transponder training quite a few times before getting in a helicopter or snow cat. I've learned enough to know that I'm not competent to predict whether a slope steeper than 30 degrees will slide or not. I've done a lot of unpatrolled side country in South America. I keep it to 30 degrees. I insist people go 1 at a time. I insist that nobody skis above me. If somebody ignores any of that, that's the last time I ever ski sidecountry with them.

This.

When I go out I usually stick to fairly low angle stuff unless its early in the day in late spring. The more I read, learn ect.... the more conservative I tend to be. Live to ski another day.....

 

[thetrailboss]

OK, so it sounds like shovel, probe, and training are a must. Any suggestions for probes? I have a basic car shovel that breaks down into three sections, so I will try that. But any need for a special shovel?

 

[snowmonster]

You forgot beacon.

Shovel - Metal shovel not plastic. Make sure it fits in your pack without sticking out. Make sure it's strong. Put the shovel on the ground face down and stand on the shovel blade. If you are hoping for a real avy shovel to be used in the bc, flat back is preferable so you can dig a snow pit. If you really want to get technical, get a shovel that doesn't have an O shaped shaft to minimize rotating. Above all, make sure it assembles easily.

Probe - Longer the better. A quickdraw/quick deploy probe is preferred. Make sure it deploys easily. The last thing you want to be doing is fiddling around with your gear in the dark or in some other sketchy situation.

Know how to use them.