Terminal Intermediate?

[hammer]

Does anyone recall the time that they felt they had transitioned from "intemediate" skiing to more "advanced" skiing? Do you remember one or more things that you started doing that caused this to happen?

I may be just a little impatient (this is my 3rd season going skiing on a regular basis), but while I've been happy going skiing I haven't been too happy with my skiing lately. Transitioning to smoother turns that don't take as much out of my legs has eluded me so far...

I think I need a lesson...

 

[ctenidae]

Admitting you have a problem is the first step to recovery.

Me, I was an expert the moment I figured out how to click into my bindings without falling over.

 

[andyzee]

A lesson will help, but won't do much good without plenty of practice. Get in as many days as you can. Also, in my case one big milestone was new skis. I had beginner skis and then purchased skis that were rated for Intermediate/Advanced and the first day on these skis I saw a huge improvement.Once again, this is after plenty of practice on the beginner skis.

 

[Robbski]

There are a limited set of factors that will impact your skiing progress. Take a hard look at each of them

Technique, equipment, conditioning and mindset are the ones that come to mind.

Most will tell you that technique is paramount and obviously lessons and practice are the keys t improviong technique. I agree that this is where you wil get the most bang for the buck.

However, take those lessons on the right skis and a pair of boots that have been carefully fitted and you have given yourself some real advantages. (I got to a point a few years ago where a great skier could have ripped on my old equipment but I skied a hell of a lot better after I replaced it with better stuff.)

Conditioning lets you make the moves that you envision and helps you keep it up all day. Tired = sloppy = faceplant, yardsale, injury.

A confident mindset helps you maintain speed and work your technique as opposed to falling into the "oh crap what did I get myself into and how am I gonna survive stance" that guarantees all kinds of trouble.

Oh, and keep at it and keep having fun.

 

[Skier75]

Does anyone recall the time that they felt they had transitioned from "intemediate" skiing to more "advanced" skiing? Do you remember one or more things that you started doing that caused this to happen?

I may be just a little impatient (this is my 3rd season going skiing on a regular basis), but while I've been happy going skiing I haven't been too happy with my skiing lately. Transitioning to smoother turns that don't take as much out of my legs has eluded me so far...

I think I need a lesson...

Not really sure where the "transion" happened or if I can even say that it has happened. Both my husband and I were in the same position a few years ago, that you are in. By taking a lesson, watching others, and skiing with more advanced skiers all have helped. We still stay mostly on intermediate slopes but venture out onto the black and even a few double blacks occasionally(but only when conditions are really good). I don't feel confortable skiing the blacks so much this year, too much ice.

Believe it or not, so I'm told, that you just have to do it. My son-in-law convinced me a few years ago that if you don't push yourself just a little bit, then you'll just stay where you are, you just have to go over that little bit of comfort zone. I'm not saying go to the extreme, but try to find a black that's just about the next step up from a blue and take it easy. I'm one of the biggest chicken's there is. So that's what I did, push myself just a little bit more, and now I can do just about anything, of course conditions are taken into account. One of my problems were that I wasn't pointing my skis enoough into the fall line, I was fighting it too much. All I can say is that lessons do help quite a bit too, then practice, practice, pratice. But practice on confortable slopes, then go just that little bit further....see what happens.

 

[Greg]

Ah yeah - the upper intermediate plateau... Just remember, it's all about the miles. The only way to break through is to continue to ski more. You need to be skiing double digit days each season at least to see reasonable gains each season. My season goal is twenty+ days. Also try to ski longer days. Not saying you need to ski from 8 am til close, but aim for 5-6+ hours each outing if possible. Beyond that, take a lesson - that may help. I think an even more effective approach is to try to ski with others who are better than you. AZ is a great resource for finding really good skiers that will push your limits and offer advice on slope if you want it.

Finally, the right equipment can go a long way; though I'm a firm believer that equipment doesn't make a skier, but crappy equipment can keep someone from progressing efficiently. Advanced level equipment is more demanding and will in a sense force you to ski more agressively. Be sure you're fit properly in your boots. Go see Jeff Bokum if you have any doubts. My skiing has improved almost immediately after a three hour visit with Jeff and being correctly fit in the right sized boots. Most boot fitters are hacks. I would say I've probably only heard a half dozen names in the Northeast of guys that really know what they are doing. Greg Hoffman (Green Mountian Orthotics, Stratton), Jeff Bokum (S&W, Concord) and Keith Holmquist (The Pro, Hunter) are the ones I hear most.

My breakthrough into a lower advanced category came last season. I'm finally able to comfortably keep my hands up and out and really drive them down the fall line. Good hand position is key. Presumably you know how to turn well on most slopes being an upper intermediate skier so once you can confidently keep those hands up and out, the rest will follow. Good luck.

 

[tekweezle]

I think I need a lesson...

not just any lesson, take a level 7 or 8 lesson and maybe go to the moguls or the terrain park. they can teach you things to help you ski more efficiently so you will be less tired by the end of the day.

demo some shorter skis. maybe some twin tips. for me, my skis probably were holding me back a little because they were long and all beat up.

watch the olympics and get some pointers from what the pros do. i was watching the slalom last night and watching those guys make those short turns was beautiful.

one of the things that kept me as a "terminal intermediate" was fear. fear of going too fast and not being able to control my speed. learning to control my speed has helped me overcome the fear.

 

[hammer]

Thanks for all of the input...I can always count on help from the folks here! :beer:

Getting out on a regular basis is a challenge, and I do tend to have a lot of family time on my ski trips so I don't get a chance to push myself as much.

Unfortunately, what's been mentioned about fear definitely factors into my skiing; I am not as bothered by going down steeper blues and easy blacks, but I do need to get more comfortable with going faster.

A visit to Jeff to see if I can get a better fit out of my boots is on my to-do list as well...

 

[dmc]

Go to Tuckerman Ravine and take some turns in the bowl.. that will jar you out of the intermediate thng..

Seriously..

 

[JimG.]

Ah yeah - the upper intermediate plateau... Just remember, it's all about the miles. The only way to break through is to continue to ski more. You need to be skiing double digit days each season at least to see reasonable gains each season. My season goal is twenty+ days. Also try to ski longer days. Not saying you need to ski from 8 am til close, but aim for 5-6+ hours each outing if possible. Beyond that, take a lesson - that may help. I think an even more effective approach is to try to ski with others who are better than you. AZ is a great resource for finding really good skiers that will push your limits and offer advice on slope if you want it.

Finally, the right equipment can go a long way; though I'm a firm believer that equipment doesn't make a skier, but crappy equipment can keep someone from progressing efficiently. Advanced level equipment is more demanding and will in a sense force you to ski more agressively. Be sure you're fit properly in your boots. Go see Jeff Bokum if you have any doubts. My skiing has improved almost immediately after a three hour visit with Jeff and being correctly fit in the right sized boots. Most boot fitters are hacks. I would say I've probably only heard a half dozen names in the Northeast of guys that really know what they are doing. Greg Hoffman (Green Mountian Orthotics, Stratton), Jeff Bokum (S&W, Concord) and Keith Holmquist (The Pro, Hunter) are the ones I hear most.

My breakthrough into a lower advanced category came last season. I'm finally able to comfortably keep my hands up and out and really drive them down the fall line. Good hand position is key. Presumably you know how to turn well on most slopes being an upper intermediate skier so once you can confidently keep those hands up and out, the rest will follow. Good luck.

Lots of mileage is key...the more you ski, the better you get. Same as any other sport or skill; practice makes perfect.

 

[hammer]

Go to Tuckerman Ravine and take some turns in the bowl.. that will jar you out of the intermediate thng..

Seriously..

That'll jar me in more ways than one.

It would be entertaining for the rest of you, though... :lol:

 

[Sky]

Great thread...and excellent responses form everybody. What a great resource this is. Greg...I'm a convert. *smirk*

Egad, I remember how angsty I was about taking my first lesson. But what a difference it made. Lessons, and practice between lessons is a must.

Along with the Lessons...and this helped me...read "The All Mountain Skier". It breaks down the skills and gives you drills to practice, tells you what to look for when your doing things correctly. Certainly no repalcement for lessosn and time on snow...but also certainly an enhancement thereto. I read it a few summers ago and re-read it prior to skiing. Amizon/Barnes and Noble etc...about $20.

Up-to-date gear! I bought new boots and new skis about six seasons ago (after demo-ing) and the confidence boost was amazing. The gear was not top-o-the-line...but it fit and was the appropriate "skill level" for me.

Stay on appropriate slopes and work your skills. Forget about bagging trophy trails ("I hit the summit!!") mentality. Any trail that puts you in "survival" mode is keeping you in old habits.

Good Luck!

 

[tekweezle]

definitely go skiing out west if you haven't yet preferebly on uncrowded weekdays. it can change your perspective on skiing entirely.

to be able to cruise for miles without having to get on a lift will allow you to work on your technique.

 

[Marc]

definitely go skiing out west if you haven't yet preferebly on uncrowded weekdays. it can change your perspective on skiing entirely.

to be able to cruise for miles without having to get on a lift will allow you to work on your technique.

This is kind of a big undertaking and not necessary to get over the intermediate plateau. If anything, skiing in the East in tight trees and varying surface conditions will only serve to hone advanced skills.

My rec? Aside from listening to what everyone else has said so far, read this article by our very on Steve aka Riverc0il:

http://www.thesnowway.com/crossingover.htm

Continue to have fun. It will be the only way you will continue to improve and not be frustrated.

:beer:

 

[Marc]

PS

I started skiing five years ago and it was only my fourth year into my fifth that I started becoming really comfortable calling myself a Type III skier.

Now I feel comfortable doing so. Although the video Andyzee is going to post sooner or later may confirm or disconfirm this notion.

 

[tekweezle]

This is kind of a big undertaking and not necessary to get over the intermediate plateau. If anything, skiing in the East in tight trees and varying surface conditions will only serve to hone advanced skills.

not necessary but certainly can help. the toughest thing I find is fighting boredom. skiing the same old trails at smallish resorts. Doing the 1 day or weekend trip grind. fighting with the crowds at the liftlines to go on trails that are not very long. weaving down crowded slopes like it;s rush hour. all these factor into your enjoyment of the sport.

believe it or not, you can become a better skier by going to more technically challenging mountains. it helped me immensely oto take my first trip to Jackson hole. steeper pitches, longer runs, mmoguls everywhere-skiing that mountain just makes you better.

 

[WICKEDBUMPER]

Its time you take a trip out west. You need some high quality mileage now. After my first trip, I came back a different skier. Light years ahead from where I was pre-trip. Its ski-life changing if you push your envelope.
But beware...dont let coming back east bum you out.

 

[ski_adk]

Here's my list of suggestions (these totally worked for me):

1. Buy a season pass: Get out and get out often!!! I bought my first season pass last year to Jiminy and was able to get around 30 days on-snow last year. What a difference it made!!! I was able to experience just about any East Coast condition possible and it really enhanced my skill set. You'll be more willing to take advantage of those crappy days when they're already paid for. In return, you'll gain valuable experience that will make you a better skier.

2. Take lessons: Good instructors have drills that will get you to feel something in your skis that you haven't felt before. Many ski clubs offer free lessons to members (http://OCskiclub.org for example in the capital district has an awesome instruction program) as a way of maintaining a strong member base. They can help you expand your comfort zone and build your self-confidence on the slopes.

3. Decent Equipment: Better technology does make a difference. I didn't really take off until I bought myself a decent pair of skis. This year, I made another major progression by obtaining new, stiffer boots. You don't have to buy the latest and greatest for a fortune either. Ask around for a good all-mountain carving ski to get started.

4. Take advantage of "hero snow" conditions: Hero snow is when the temperatures are nice and the snow is set up nice and soft. It really allows you to experiment with edging technique (these were the days I made my first "railroad carves"). You'll really be able to feel your skis hook up and bend and this is a great opportunity to feel them out.

5. STAY POSITIVE: Focus on the good things you accomplished that day. Negativity can really kill your confidence and make you you're own worst enemy.

And oh yeah, I second the advice about "The All-Mountain Skier." Reading that book really put skiing technique into terms I can understand and use.

One note on getting more comfortable with speed. Whatever you do, keep pushing forward. DO NOT GET IN THE BACKSEAT!!! I had to learn that one the hard way. Commit to the turn and push your weight forward. Concentrate on your turn shape and size, keep a tall upper body and your hands out up and in front.

Now, get after it!

 

[riverc0il]

Getting out on a regular basis is a challenge, and I do tend to have a lot of family time on my ski trips so I don't get a chance to push myself as much.

quite frankly, that is a problem if you want to push past a technique plateau. can you get out to do some night skiing at a local mountain? you live in MA, so you should be able to score a mid-week pass to a local ski area with night skiing. two nights of three hours a week will dramatically help your snow totals. you don't have to go to the big mountains to work on your skills, small local hills are actually ideal for lots of laps.

Unfortunately, what's been mentioned about fear definitely factors into my skiing; I am not as bothered by going down steeper blues and easy blacks, but I do need to get more comfortable with going faster.

speed has nothing to do with good technique. any one can go fast, so whatever to that (i am a former racer so read that comment with that in mind). good technique is slowing down and really working the minute details. small and slow quick and agile turns with perfect technique is very hard to do, it is something i work on constantly. speed is over rated, real good technique needs to be worked on at all speeds, especially slow speeds.

more time on snow and more lessons are the best way to go. i downplay the effect of equipment on improving technique. while people are developing, they rarely push past the limits of their equipment from what i have seen. but once you push past that plateau, you will definitely want the better equipment to speed you along as an expert. the worst thing you could do as an intermediate is get equipment that is beyond your ability, it will punish you. and you don't want to buy upper intermediate equipment that you will just pass by in a year or two.

three years is not a long time, btw. i started skiing when i was 4. i was a terminal intermediate until age 20 when i joined a college ski team and got my technique handed to me. someone to teach me and time on the snow made the difference.

don't forget to watch others. i learned how to ski bumps by immitating other skiers, studying what they did both right and wrong.

 

[tekweezle]

Unfortunately, what's been mentioned about fear definitely factors into my skiing; I am not as bothered by going down steeper blues and easy blacks, but I do need to get more comfortable with going faster.

speed has nothing to do with good technique. any one can go fast, so whatever to that (i am a former racer so read that comment with that in mind). good technique is slowing down and really working the minute details. small and slow quick and agile turns with perfect technique is very hard to do, it is something i work on constantly. speed is over rated, real good technique needs to be worked on at all speeds, especially slow speeds.

what I meant was that when I was in my "plateaued intermediate state", I was literally paralyzed by the thought of going too fast down the trail. every movement I made was a skidding, breaking movement to slow myself down. barely acceptable on easy blues, not so on black trails. naturally, i got tired fast and my ski days were usually cut short. as I was acquiring better technique, things didn;t turn around for me until after I got over the fear and stopped the constant breaking and started using my turns to slow me down instead. I can still ski fast but it;s a controlled fast now. I usually count the number of turns I make going down steep slopes.