The "Sugarbush Thread"

[skiur]

Are you skiing here today? Every lift was on wind hold at the opening bell. Now it's relegated to Skye Peak.

Opening bell is not something I do, crack of noon is more my style.

 

[PowderDreams]

For the record, I appreciate operations greatly, they have a tough job and aren’t paid nearly enough for it. I’m not mad at ski patrol at all. They deserve all the untracked powder they can get, and if they went on strike, they’d have my unequivocal support.

I’m just saying, there’s often a kind of “work to rule” at a lot of seasonal jobs, where you use any borderline excuse in the book to shut down. It’s management’s job to have boots on the ground and keep people accountable. It’s management’s job to prioritize the maintenance for the least mechanically complex lift in your fleet, and to not have wage shortages that adversely impact staffing levels. It’s management’s job to not be down to one lift mechanic for an entire summer (!). This can’t be a particularly difficult repair if patrol is still able to ride the chair.

 

[cdskier]

This really isn't a big mystery or conspiracy. HG was closed for several days and never opened today either. Without HG, you have no hike access to CR. Today was not the first day that CR was listed as closed. They simply left it closed until they are more confident that HG would run and be able to provide the necessary hike access.

 

[vtski802]

This really isn't a big mystery or conspiracy. HG was closed for several days and never opened today either. Without HG, you have no hike access to CR. Today was not the first day that CR was listed as closed. They simply left it closed until they are more confident that HG would run and be able to provide the necessary hike access.

Still possible to skin up from bravo...

 

[crippity]

Love Sugarbush as much as all of you. What I am reading is quite simple. @win tell them to start communicating better or at all because this is really becoming shitty and annoying. Please and thank you

 

[jimmywilson69]

I don't think its fair to ask Win to do shit. He doesn't own the place anymore and the fact he still comes on here and gives opinion, is more than he owes anyone.

Its my understanding that Sugarbush's management knows about this place and this thread particularly. If they chose to come in here, most of you would greet them with pitchforks and torches...

 

[crippity]

Hi JW, I'm sure we are in same opinion. Just tell the simple message that current bush should communicate better to all of us that are the customers. I think, the best example of the sugarbog that next?

 

[jimmywilson69]

agreed.

 

[NewEnglander77]

I disagree. Most of Sugarbush's lifts are not at the point (from an age perspective) where any other owner would be replacing them proactively either. (NRX is a whole other animal).

As for HG, I actually thought last year it ran fairly well. Almost like it knew it was being replaced and wanted to show off in the last year to try to say it wasn't ready to quit.

I think our memories are short about HG. There were issues many busy powder days over the past 2 years. Yes, age may not be an issue but if they aren't reliable consistently then they have to be overhauled or replaced. NRX for sure needs to go and the backup (Summit) is a slug if that's the only option. GMX is troubled this year and there were quite a few times it was down last season. We can go back in this thread and track the days if we wanted to.

 

[djd66]

The GM of Killington came on the kzone and addressed the problem head on. He ended up being well liked and respected by most in the forum. Given the amount of new posts racked up in this tread, it seems like there would be no better place to address hardcore regulars and even the not-so hardcore. It’s a service business and the worst thing you can do in a service business is ignore your customers. It’s way easier to keep an existing customer happy than it is to find a new one.
As I have said previously, I truly appreciate Win coming on here and addressing as best he can. But, it’s not his MTN anymore and as connected as he is to the mountain, communication should be coming from Sugarbush management. In 5 months they will be asking people to buy passes again. If they don’t address some of the REAL ISSUES, a lot of people may think twice about reupping for a 2026 pass.

 

[cdskier]

I don't think its fair to ask Win to do shit. He doesn't own the place anymore and the fact he still comes on here and gives opinion, is more than he owes anyone.

Its my understanding that Sugarbush's management knows about this place and this thread particularly. If they chose to come in here, most of you would greet them with pitchforks and torches...

They definitely know about this place as both JH and JB had registered and posted here originally. They just didn't keep posting. They may still read though...

 

[cdskier]

I think our memories are short about HG. There were issues many busy powder days over the past 2 years. Yes, age may not be an issue but if they aren't reliable consistently then they have to be overhauled or replaced. NRX for sure needs to go and the backup (Summit) is a slug if that's the only option. GMX is troubled this year and there were quite a few times it was down last season. We can go back in this thread and track the days if we wanted to.

Oh HG definitely had issues over the years, but last year wasn't one of those years. At the time they made the decision to replace it though, it was having repeated issues up to that point. Ironically after that decision it seemed to decide to cooperate. I'm not debating whether that lift needed replacement (it did in the near-term)...just stating last year it was relatively reliable.

As to other lifts, perceived reliability alone does not mean you need to replace it. We don't have enough knowledge about the issues (i.e. on GMX) to determine how serious they are. Sometimes it is just a series of bad luck events/issues.

 

[HowieT2]

Too crowded during blackouts is an odd complaint. I'd say blackouts are some of the best days to ski now (with the caveat of the potential variability of conditions due to weather particularly during the Christmas period where we know it has often not been great conditions-wise lately).

I stopped skiing holidays when I no longer had kids with school holidays. I went down to the base pass this season for the first time. I have a hard time believing that mlk and presidents day aren't crowded any more but maybe I'm just working off old memories

OK I am slow. I don't get the joke. Explain please.

its a line from casablanca

 

[HowieT2]

Pulled the trigger on heading up tomorrow night after work for Saturday and Sunday. Hopefully it's not too wind scoured.

I also completely agree with all the bitching here about the lift issues. I got burned a few times last year by them and I'm not happy seeing it's continuing into this season. As a double whammy my home mountain, Gore, has been a shit show this year of lift issues AND lack of snowmaking. Crazy how downhill Gore has gone this season while Whiteface is killing it this year ( as a result of last year's shit show) and Belle is too as usual.

I skied belleayre New Year’s Day. They got their own issues. addition to base lodge in progress so no working kitchen.

 

[SkiTheEast]

I have a hard time believing that the flow of money to DV, Steamboat, Palisades etc.. has anything to do with much of this (pushing NRX replacement off indefinitely is an exception). Sugarbush's inability to get or keep its lifts operating seems very much like a homegrown problem. I mean the head of Lift Maintenance literally said it in that last update - they don't have enough mechanics on staff to do the work. All of these issues come back to not have the people to do the necessary work in the off-season when it's supposed to be done vs. in sub-freezing temps in Dec/Jan. I have ZERO sympathy for the issues they are experiencing in that regard (while at the same time having tremendous empathy for the poor guys out there having to do the work while short-staffed). None at all.

Yes we have annual bitching and moaning fests about lack of snowmaking, and as many of SB's defenders have pointed out, being first/fastest/biggest in snowmaking is not their brand or their goal. That's fine. But the lift issues are entirely separate, and VERY much in their control. When you further consider the pretty poor operational planning that lead to every resort in VT having more terrain open in the run-up to the holiday week, there's something rotten in Denmark. These are all local, operational decisions - no one in Denver is telling them how many mechanics they can hire or what their season-opening strategy should be. Too much smoke here to just blithely ignore and say "well I can always run off to [insert mountain here]".

Then you combine that with a major lack of transparency, it's a pretty toxic brew that is corroding their brand, as the numerous anecdotal stories shared in this thread seem to validate.

I have sympathy with this view. My point was more of the longer term view/thoughts on forthcoming investment from the parent. I view current set of issues as the short term problem (canary in the coal mine): under preparation for the season, gaslighting reactive communication weeks/months after the fact & not necessarily owning the problems. The parent company is a multibillion dollar PE company with resources (and the responsibility of local management to leverage that), not MRG coop shareholders.

It's a two way street, the fact remains they aren't dependent on single day tickets bought at the window anymore, so if they take everyones money in April of the previous year they have a responsibility to ensure they deliver on the product for that season. That's why people are understandably frustrated. They own the lift issues and they own the opening plan and as stakeholders in the business and people that paid good money ahead of time have a right to question the decision making process given there was minimal transparency. People tend not to ask a lot of questions when things are going well but given the start of the season can't say much has gone well...

 

[cdskier]

I stopped skiing holidays when I no longer had kids with school holidays. I went down to the base pass this season for the first time. I have a hard time believing that mlk and presidents day aren't crowded any more but maybe I'm just working off old memories

Years ago I often avoided holidays. Blackouts on base passes make a noticeable difference today vs years ago when those blackouts didn't exist.

 

[drjeff]

Years ago I often avoided holidays. Blackouts on base passes make a noticeable difference today vs years ago when those blackouts didn't exist.

Agree. The Blackouts on base passes have now made most of the blackout weekend crowd wise seem like a "normal" weekend verses a "crowded" weekend IMHO

 

[KustyTheKlown]

Years ago I often avoided holidays. Blackouts on base passes make a noticeable difference today vs years ago when those blackouts didn't exist.

agree. i am literally skiing indy THIS weekend to avoid the base people who see new snow but are blacked out NEXT WEEKEND, when i plan to return to sugarbush

 

[tumbler]

All of the issues are on the shoulders of the local management. Denver is not telling them how to operate. Denver's input is an operating budget and a capital budget. They have invested quite a bit already in capital but obviously no where near the same as Western resorts. Does anyone know if Stratton is getting everything they want and need in capital?

As for the comment about seasonal businesses looking to shut things down at any excuse possible, I am very confident, no positive, that that is not the case at SB. They want every lift running but are short on labor. They want every trail open but short on water or natural. I'm not saying it's managed perfectly, I agree with Tin's post. We all agree that they just need to proactively communicate and not take their guests for granted.

 

[Cheetah440]

Ski areas are a money pit, always have been. They eat capital unlike any other business. The areas with new lifts also have new development. DV is getting 18 lifts cause they are gonna build how many houses and condos and restaurants and shops and a new village and all the things nobody in the MRV wants. That’s where the return is. And that’s where the investment goes.

Does anyone think a new lodge is coming soon?