This is going to get us coming and going

[thetrailboss]

Do you guys have a competitive electric provider market? I'm guessing not. Down in PA, you have the option to pick who provides your electric. Transmission and distribution stays with the local company.

Vermont no longer believes in competition. :roll:

 

[Newpylong]

I am in New Hampshire, not Vermont. But yes we have the option of competitive electric supplier. Time to look at rates again.

 

[4aprice]

"Under my plan energy rates will necessarily skyrocket". Can't say we weren't warned. Hold on to your wallet

Alex

Lake Hopatcong, NJ

 

[MadMadWorld]

We? I did not realize you were the official spokesman for the site.

How are the pay and benefits? Do you at least get free vouchers for Ski Sundown?

Can't complain about pay or benefits. No vouchers to Sundown....pretty sure I'd be chased away with pitch forks

 

[dlague]

I am in New Hampshire, not Vermont. But yes we have the option of competitive electric supplier. Time to look at rates again.

NHEC will have the first solar farm in NH - trying to beat the Solar City concepts. Funny thing is - independent Solar Companies are being blocked by the Public Utilities Commission by putting in rules that hinder then ie. 99KW provides the greatest revenue potential anything over that is technically penalized. They are trying to encourgae the utilities to drive this model.

In VT, a company CEC is planning on a 4 megawatt farm after the utility turned then down as their solar partner and now are going rogue right in that utilities territory.

 

[jaytrem]

Good company - I have stock in them. If this keeps up they might be paying us a visit here too.

Solar City gets some pretty bad reviews. You really need to read the fine print when getting involved with them. Some of the negatives of their program include...

1. You must buy all the energy that your panels produce whether you use it or not. For example, if they installed my friend's proposed system at my place, and it did indeed generate the estimated amount, it would actually cost me about $150 more than I paid to my regular electric company last year.
2. The own the solar credits, if you don't know what they are you should read up.
3. They can't guarantee you won't be taxed on the panels or produced energy in future years.
4. The rules vary by state on what the regular electric company gets to do with the extra you generate. Apparently NJ is on of the better ones for the consumer. I don't think they ever actually pay you though, you only have energy "banked". One thing i could never figure out is if they still get to charge you the "delivery" portion of the bill. I suspect they do, if anybody knows the answer to that one please let me know. Thanks.
5. There are a few others that I don't recall, but I ended up finding a lot of negatives and my friend decided not to go with them.

Don't get me wrong, in the long run the Solar City deal might work out. For me it makes more sense to lock in a rate with a 3rd party provider for a year or two. I also play the "bonus" game where I change providers in exchange for airline miles and gift cards. Eventually I might go solar, but for now I'll watch the prices and see where things go.

 

[yeggous]

Do you guys have a competitive electric provider market? I'm guessing not. Down in PA, you have the option to pick who provides your electric. Transmission and distribution stays with the local company.

Yes, you have the option of picking but few do.

The electric prices in New England are being driven by the huge increase of dependence on natural gas. This is largely because our demand is very variable within the day. Coal and nuke a great at providing a base load, but you can't turn up production during the day to provide your peak load. Gas is very good for this which is one reason it has grown in popularity. You can throttle up and down hydro production, but there are other problems with hydro.

A large part of the natural gas price spikes are because of the rising price of heating oil. This has driven lots and lots of people to convert to natural gas for heat, but this increase in demand has not been offset by new distribution capacity. When it gets cold the demand of natural gas for heating goes sky high, which is what you're really seeing in your electric bill.

 

[mbedle]

I am in New Hampshire, not Vermont. But yes we have the option of competitive electric supplier. Time to look at rates again.

The reason I asked is down in PA the deregulated electric providers a couple years back. The information spreading like wildfire stated rates are going to skyrocket. However, that never happened and rates stayed pretty low. In addition, you typically locked in with a provider for a 2 year period, at a set rate.

 

[mbedle]

Yes, you have the option of picking but few do.

The electric prices in New England are being driven by the huge increase of dependence on natural gas. This is largely because our demand is very variable within the day. Coal and nuke a great at providing a base load, but you can't turn up production during the day to provide your peak load. Gas is very good for this which is one reason it has grown in popularity. You can throttle up and down hydro production, but there are other problems with hydro.

A large part of the natural gas price spikes are because of the rising price of heating oil. This has driven lots and lots of people to convert to natural gas for heat, but this increase in demand has not been offset by new distribution capacity. When it gets cold the demand of natural gas for heating goes sky high, which is what you're really seeing in your electric bill.

Well, when they end up paying a 50% increase in cost, they might start picking. That fear of huge increases is what got the ball rolling down here in PA. It appears to be a reality up in NH, with two of the suppliers already posting 50% increases in the coming winter.

I think another reason for switching coal plants over to natural gas is the huge amount that we have in the US, at least more so than its ability to fill in peak demand times. Also, the natural gas that is purchased and sold for heating purposes is not the same as the natural gas bought for electric generation. Natural gas bought for heating purposes is purchase in greater volumes at set longterm prices. Natural gas purchased for electric generation is purchased in short term smaller volumes and it's cost is highly variable (market fluctuations).

 

[BenedictGomez]

"Under my plan energy rates will necessarily skyrocket". Can't say we weren't warned. Hold on to your wallet

They need to make common, traditional forms of energy extremely expensive so that they're economically unsustainable and not-ready-for-primetime "rainbows & unicorns" forms of energy can survive. At least he was honest about it, one of the few times that's happened.

 

[mbedle]

They need to make common, traditional forms of energy extremely expensive so that they're economically unsustainable and not-ready-for-primetime "rainbows & unicorns" forms of energy can survive. At least he was honest about it, one of the few times that's happened.

Very true - and "rainbows & Unicorns" forms of energy will never be able to solely replace conventional forms of energy. Remember, the sun don't shine at night and the wind does stop every once and a while.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Very true - and "rainbows & Unicorns" forms of energy will never be able to solely replace conventional forms of energy. Remember, the sun don't shine at night and the wind does stop every once and a while.

Natural Gas will win in the end. It's going to be increasingly difficult to "hide" that fact from the masses for too much longer. Once that happens the tipping point will be reached. It's just a shame we're going to plunge ourselves more & more billions into debt wasting money on these "pretender energies" before that happens.

 

[Puck it]

You communist....tree hugging....

I am all for getting off fossil fuel but wind power is not the viable alternative. It can supplement only. Wind power cost is still like 2X NG if the data that I have is still up to date.

 

[Not Sure]

Natural Gas will win in the end. It's going to be increasingly difficult to "hide" that fact from the masses for too much longer. Once that happens the tipping point will be reached. It's just a shame we're going to plunge ourselves more & more billions into debt wasting money on these "pretender energies" before that happens.

Amen...
Natural gas is having an effect on oil market as well. much reduced demand , prices are starting to decline gradually.
That being said timing is everything , the push for the premature attepted murder of coal is going to be very painfull for alot of consumers.
Myself being one , I spent a lot of money on a Geo system and went from a $3K oil bill to $800 electric bill.
but if electric rates sky rocket I may shut it off and burn oil. :angry:
Air Products and Chemicals is building a lot of LNG condensers . When they are up and running Nat gas will be eazier to transport ...also overseas...That could be bad for the US . but for now there is a glut.
chart is a little dated oil is down to $2.95
Yes I pay aprox .09 KWH

 

[jack97]

That being said timing is everything , the push for the premature attepted murder of coal is going to be very painfull for alot of consumers.

As mentioned in the article, the shutdown of coal fire plants in US is another factor in driving the demand for natural gas. That being said, that US coal is being shipped to China, so the EPA/executive mandate is doing diddly squat in terms of CO2 "pollution". All it is doing is driving up short term cost of energy.

The only bright spot is that it may make a dent in the trade imbalance.... China needs coal and oil. Due to the high cost of oil, it has become competitive to extract oil and gas from US soil, we may be able to even things out.

 

[Smellytele]

Very true - and "rainbows & Unicorns" forms of energy will never be able to solely replace conventional forms of energy. Remember, the sun don't shine at night and the wind does stop every once and a while.

Until they make better energy storage devices then this is true. Once they do these sources make more sense.

 

[BenedictGomez]

As mentioned in the article, the shutdown of coal fire plants in US is another factor in driving the demand for natural gas. That being said, that US coal is being shipped to China, so the EPA/executive mandate is doing diddly squat in terms of CO2 "pollution". All it is doing is driving up short term cost of energy.

It's unbelievably stupid. All it's doing is hurting the Americans least able to absorb financial pain.

 

[jack97]

It's unbelievably stupid. All it's doing is hurting the Americans least able to absorb financial pain.

yes it is hurting the Americans who can least absorb this hit... all it is a feel good policy for the rich.

btw, the US coal companies are trying to find ports and an infrastructure to ship large quantities China, most likely for cost reasons. If not, it will be exported to other places so net effect... it does nothing for curbing global CO2 emissions.


http://blog.seattlepi.com/seattlepolitics/2014/09/26/british-columbia-cities-want-to-know-risks-of-dirty-cheap-u-s

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303563304579447582374789164

 

[drjeff]

It's unbelievably stupid. All it's doing is hurting the Americans least able to absorb financial pain.

Same concept that those behind the green movement can't fathom that those "average" families would rather pay far less $$ for say a Chevy Cruze, a Nissan Sentra or even a Toyota Corolla gas powered car that gets most of the mileage that a far more expensive Toyota Prius gets.

Nobody wants to actively pollute, but the majority of folks also want to pay as little as possible for their gas, heating costs and electric bill, regardless of what type of energy generation is involved

 

[jack97]

^^^

Yes nobody wants to actively pollute. IMO the green movement has it priorities mixed up or maybe I'm interpreting them the wrong way.

Instead of curbing the CO2 pollution, curb the actual pollution that is really harmful to human health. Case in point, London has encourage the use of diesel since it would emit less CO2, the problem is the real pollution is causing health issues in the city.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-...secret-pollutes-like-beijing-airpocalyse.html