Thoughts on Killington's shortened season (expected closing day is 4/13/2008)?

[dmc]

The furor over the pass increase is perplexing to me in that people had to know that wasnt going to last.

Right... It's entitlement...
i bought that bronze pass the first year.... And they opened late and closed early and screwed me over... I'm pissed but it was a risk that I lost.

 

[JimG.]

JimG, the hope was that with Killington raising pass prices by 70% adding and 40% more blackout days to their pass they would give something back by returning to late season skiing. Granted the last couple of yeaars the early close was either weather (or sale of mountian related). But they still managed to stay open to mid May. Now the new owners are committed closing in mid April.

What happens if we get late snow again this year? Will Killington be closed (like Stratton and Mad River was) in late April with tons of snow on the mountain?

This is a break with what Killington used to be about and a raw deal for Killington skiers

I understand your reasoning, but I still don't see where your hope came from...are you telling me that the higher season pass prices inspired it? Give something back? I don't get that, really. The mountain is in sore shape and needs improvements...how can they do that by raising prices and then giving back?

nyc, I'm not trying to pick a fight...I'm trying to bring the discussion into a circle that includes skier demands and business realities.

 

[mlctvt]

Is 2 weeks enough to keep the LOYAL Killington skier away? This is the question I am looking forward to answering when the season starts. There are 2 families on my oldest son's soccer team who own up at K...there every weekend as much as possible. Both have been owners for over a decade. Kids are in racing programs. Their hopes:

1) Better and cheaper food.
2) More reasonable day ticket rates so that their friends would want to go there.

When I ask either about the extended season, the replies are the same...ain't happening.
I'm going to ask them both about closing 2 weeks earlier. I doubt either will care. They both plan on being at K again next season.

I think you're right about this, most people even property owners just don't care about the extended season, especially the end of the season. I own a condo at Mount Snow and one of Mount Snow's management told me that visits really drop off after mid March. This came up in discussion about the possibility of staying open later in the season. I witnessed that myself this year. Excellent conditions in late March and early April and many of the condos in my complex were empty. My next door neighbors who rented for the season weren't there at all after March 18th. I think many people just move on to other things or kid's sports after mid-March. I think if late season skier visits increased more areas would stay open later.

 

[SkiDog]

freakin' Hunter!

The original managers of Killington LEARNED to make snow from the Slutskys and ex-Hunter snowmaking personnel.

Hunter always has a deep manmade base every season.

I'm shocked you find it hard to believe that Hunter could rival K for length of season. There was snow top to bottom on Racer's as late as Killington's closing date THIS PAST SEASON.

I could see the fuss if this were the 90's when K opened in early October and stayed open until 6/1 the earliest, but the real days of the extended season ended around 2000.

Personally I agree that Hunter lays down a great product year after year...however I believe, personally, that they lack the terrain diversity that Killington has....Killington is HUGE...its just being and been mismanaged for far too long...

Doenst look like POWDR wants to change this, only make it worse...oh well..glad I moved WEST..

M

 

[andyzee]

Personally I agree that Hunter lays down a great product year after year...however I believe, personally, that they lack the terrain diversity that Killington has....Killington is HUGE...its just being and been mismanaged for far too long...

Doenst look like POWDR wants to change this, only make it worse...oh well..glad I moved WEST..

M

You still live in Utah?

 

[SkiDog]

You still live in Utah?

Umm yeah....why????


I DO however still own a condo in Killington

M

 

[nycskier]

I understand your reasoning, but I still don't see where your hope came from...are you telling me that the higher season pass prices inspired it? Give something back? I don't get that, really. The mountain is in sore shape and needs improvements...how can they do that by raising prices and then giving back?

nyc, I'm not trying to pick a fight...I'm trying to bring the discussion into a circle that includes skier demands and business realities.

JimG, I know you are not picking a fight. Never thought you were!

If they are charging more I want to know that they are putting more into the mountain. I want to know they will blow more snow, upgrade facilities or build the interconnect. Obviously interconnect or new lifts won't happen next year so I can overlook that, but increasing man made snow IS something they can do. Telling us they plan to close mid April tells me there will be no upgrading of snow making vs last year.

Now compare this to a Bronze A41 passholder whose home mountain was Mount Snow. Snow offered an early pass for $399 (vs $365 last year), with LESS blackout days than the A41 pass had last year. Also Peaks put $3.5 million into an upgrade their snowmaking.

What do Killington passholders get? No upgrades, 70% higher prices, more blackouts and a shorter season.

This is why Killington skiers are upset and this is why a lot of us will take our business elsewhere next year.

 

[SkiDog]

JimG, I know you are not picking a fight. Never thought you were!

If they are charging more I want to know that they are putting more into the mountain. I want to know they will blow more snow, upgrade facilities or build the interconnect. Obviously interconnect or new lifts won't happen next year so I can overlook that, but increasing man made snow IS something they can do. Telling us they plan to close mid April tells me there will be no upgrading of snow making vs last year.

Now compare this to a Bronze A41 passholder whose home mountain was Mount Snow. Snow offered an early pass for $399 (vs $365 last year), with LESS blackout days than the A41 pass had last year. Also Peaks put $3.5 million into an upgrade their snowmaking.

What do Killington passholders get? No upgrades, 70% higher prices, more blackouts and a shorter season.

This is why Killington skiers are upset and this is why a lot of us will take our business elsewhere next year.

NY is right on...Nyberg talks about all the "improvements" they are going to do, but will likely be "unseen" since they are all bull...painting lodges.....etc. Nyberg also talks about how they'll spend more this year than ASC has in past 2 years...but duh....you'll have the increased revenue from selling higher priced passes AND a shorter season..you'd better spend more..

Killington DOES NOT NEED FANCY LODGES...ITS ABOUT BEING THE BEAST OF THE EAST...and that it....Killington fanatics could care about nothing more than that.

M

 

[awf170]

Overall, I give it a "meh"

I give it a "haha".

 

[kingslug]

I imagine more people might head to the Bush. I was thinking of spending more time up north and K was going to be the place, and it still might be. Late season, The Bush.

 

[ski_resort_observer]

Just chummin' up the waters...

Like ya did over at EpicSki? :wink:

 

[Greg]

Like ya did over at EpicSki? :wink:

Nope. Over there I was just flaming Highway Star... :lol:

 

[millerm277]

Well, as I've said at K-zone...

The late and early season was what defined K, getting rid of it eliminates that one thing that was still keeping K above the rest. I can no longer think of any reasons to go to K, unless they really make a lot of snow on stuff like Devil's Fiddle and Ovation...

I'll buy a pass this year, but I think I'll be leaving after this year if they don't turn things around.

 

[shpride]

The only time me and my friends went to Killington was early and late season. That is 6-7 people at 4 days each in lost revenue. There are probably a lot of groups like us in lost revenue.

 

[dmc]

The only time me and my friends went to Killington was early and late season. That is 6-7 people at 4 days each in lost revenue. There are probably a lot of groups like us in lost revenue.

We had a whole crew from Hunter that would rent a giant house at KMart for April and May back in the day.. We'd have 15 or more a weekend.. Spent tons of cash locally..
Feel sorry for the business owners..

 

[nycskier]

We had a whole crew from Hunter that would rent a giant house at KMart for April and May back in the day.. We'd have 15 or more a weekend.. Spent tons of cash locally..
Feel sorry for the business owners..

The local business owners are going to be the ones that are hurt most. Less people going to Killington plus the building of a village to compete with their business wont be good for them.

 

[Geoff]

The local business owners are going to be the ones that are hurt most. Less people going to Killington plus the building of a village to compete with their business wont be good for them.

If I were a ski shop owner on the Access Road, I'd be reducing my inventory orders by 20%. All those people skiing on cheap passes bought an awful lot of gear.

I don't think the village is going to happen for years. There is a glut of unsold condo inventory at Killington today. Prices have dropped 10-15% over the last year. That is not the time to break ground on a village.

The announced shortened season has me seriously thinking about selling my Killington condo and moving to Sugarloaf. I suffer through the midwinter Killington B.S. because they historically have offered superb spring skiing with top to bottom into early May before they shrink the mountain to one lift and a few trails. If there isn't a dramatic improvement in their midwinter product, I see no reason to stick around. For the 07-08 season, Killington is on double-secret probation.

 

[andyzee]

I have to agree with Geoff, I see a business model that will fail. I have always believed that one of ASC biggest problems was investing too much in areas other than skiing, lodging, stores, etc..... SP and Powdr seem to want to take it one step further, I give them 5 years tops before they fail. It's just unfortunate that the local economy will suffer during this period.

 

[ski_resort_observer]

I agree with both of the above comments but I think SP Land is still gonna try to propose and build a village/slopeside lodging at the base. That's why they bought the land a few years ago and that's what they think is one big thing kmart is missing compared to the competition like Stratton, Okemo and Sugarbush. I can only assume from their perspective that by the time it's actually built, their betting the real estate market will have turned around from where it is today.

From their thinking the hope is that a business on the access road might decrease their inventory but they hope they can sell stuff more pointed to the upscale market with better margins.

When Otten proposed building a 750m village at the base about 8 years ago the local business community was ready to fight it. It quickly fell off the table back then but here it is again and I am sure they will want to fight it again.

Everyone seems to think that they have all the Act 250 permits already in hand from the first go-around....me, I'm not so sure about that.

 

[Breeze]

As Real Estate Speculation has become a leper's lesion , someone, somewhere is going to realize that building more and marketing to a unique " upscale" market is a one way street, all bucks to their coveted pockets with no orts or leavings for long-standing communites

Just the word " upscale" puts my teeth on edge. Upscale folks get dressed the same way I do. Upscale Marketing is patently disrespectful of Local Investment no matter where the dressing room.

Sure, great, bring on the McMansions, buy it, build it. Use dollar power to change the tax valuation for small towns, change their education funding formula, rearrange the hopes and visions and investments of local residents for the good of ...... yada yada yada .... Someone Not Local.

Guess I'm in bitch mode tonight.


Breeze