To Carve?

[kbroderick]

in any case, i think the entire direction of the ski industry about how great carving is and how fun it is and how everyone should be learning it is excessive. expert skiers and riders hardly ever carve. it is a fun skill for intermediate or beginner groomers or steep groomers if you really want to rip it but *yawn* that gets old quick.

I think it's important to note that expert skiers often employ a partially-carved turn even when they don't arc the whole turn, in the same way that Bode or Ligety might carve through the fall line despite needing to brush the top and/or bottom of the turn in order to maintain the desired line. I think it's important to note because a carving ski (i.e. a ski that is carving, not a ski that is designed or marketed for carving) provides more control and will hold up to more force on slicker surface conditions. When you're picking your spots to control your speed in the woods, you can go a lot faster if you can manage to arc that middle part of the turn while keeping your skis pointed down the fall line (and between that stump and the tree at the edge of the chute). It's rather similar to a race turn where the sidecut of the ski doesn't allow for a full arc, but instead of pivoting just a little in the top and bottom of the turn, you might be airborne as you pivot into the turn and then airborne again as you exit and clear an iceflow. (Please note that I'm not claiming an ability to do this...but I can almost keep up with a couple of guys I know that can.)

Re: carving being boring, bah. I still find arcing turns down a steep, uneven, and firm trail to be one of the more exciting and challenging manners of skiing available. I recognize that it's tough to find suitable surface conditions and terrain at McMountains, but ripping arcs down a steep trail where you have to stand on the ski because the tip is bouncing around like a fish you just pulled out of the water and you're doing 40 MPH and using the whole width of the trail and the only way to maintain control of your direction of travel is to keep arcing...that's scary. And that's why it's fun.

 

[WICKEDBUMPER]

Re: carving being boring, bah. I still find arcing turns down a steep, uneven, and firm trail to be one of the more exciting and challenging manners of skiing available. I recognize that it's tough to find suitable surface conditions and terrain at McMountains, but ripping arcs down a steep trail where you have to stand on the ski because the tip is bouncing around like a fish you just pulled out of the water and you're doing 40 MPH and using the whole width of the trail and the only way to maintain control of your direction of travel is to keep arcing...that's scary. And that's why it's fun.

every single one of us is different. to each his own. one mans pleasure, another mans yawn. I have no desire to ever do that stuff again. I've been there, done that, even have the t-shirt at this point. I think once you do that for a while, it gets played out. do the same thing out west in a narrow rock chute or in the trees and now you are talking. but on a marked trail at a resort? the only part I find scary is the possibility of slamming into someone or being slammed into while going that fast.

 

[JimG.]

i hold carve to an extremely tight definition.
To summerize it, it is a perfectly rounded railroad track involving almost instant edge transition and 100% snow contact with both skiis. At the fall line, both skiis should actually be uphill of the skiier's body as he/she maintains their momentum directly down the fall line. The overall experience is a weightless feeling (like the first drop on a roller coaster) as the skiier passes over the fall line while the apex of the arc will feel like taking a jet to into a high G turn.

I believe this to be the signature of a PSIA trained skiier. The strict reliance on a carve is both the organizations strenth and weakness.

NYDrew nailed it for this skier. That's a true carve. Standing uphill from the skier, you would be able to see the bottoms of his/her skis the instant that they transitioned from the old turn to the new, and the torso would actually be downhill from the skis at that point.

That said, I think alot of skiers nowadays think way too much about the carve/skid equation. Both are useful skills that are required and used each day out on the hill.

And plenty of snowboarders can carve...as many as the skiers I see out there.

 

[trailertrash]

every single one of us is different. to each his own. one mans pleasure, another mans yawn. I have no desire to ever do that stuff again. I've been there, done that, even have the t-shirt at this point. I think once you do that for a while, it gets played out. do the same thing out west in a narrow rock chute or in the trees and now you are talking. but on a marked trail at a resort? the only part I find scary is the possibility of slamming into someone or being slammed into while going that fast.

why do you feel the need then to chime in on this thread? do you feel threatened that not everyone enjoys bump runs? nobody in this thread said that carving a trail is the only way to ski. besides, bumpers are so 90's do you rip the bumps in your one piece, glacier glasses and baseball hat on backwards? (kidding)

 

[trailertrash]

And plenty of snowboarders can carve...as many as the skiers I see out there.

i have actually been watching for this comparison at mtns and id have to say i see more skiers come closer to actually carving than most boarders. they still skid a bit but they are closer to carving than MOST riders. the skiers i see doing it are mostly racers though.

 

[2knees]

i've never been able to do it correctly with any consistency, but the most difficult thing to do correctly, for me, is to carve a long radius turn with absolutely no skidding at the end of the turn. Thats what carving means to me.

 

[dmc]

besides, bumpers are so 90's do you rip the bumps in your one piece, glacier glasses and baseball hat on backwards? (kidding)

Yup - that was me.. Before i made the total transition to riding...

Me in the late 80's...

 

[trailertrash]

lady killer

Yup - that was me.. Before i made the total transition to riding...

Me in the late 80's...

dude your ripping it with that fanny pack!

 

[dmc]

dude your ripping it with that fanny pack!

Fanny pack - suspenders under the shirt - glacier glasses - cookie duster mustache... Total herb wear...
The 80's were a very strange time...

 

[andyzee]

I've only been priviledged to see a boarder really carve once, it was truely awesome.

That's the truth, I've seen it a few times and each time pointed it out to my wife. It is a pleasure to watch.

 

[trailertrash]

That's the truth, I've seen it a few times and each time pointed it out to my wife. It is a pleasure to watch.

did it look like this:
http://media.putfile.com/Sunapee_2-2-06

or this:
(gondi line at the loaf, not me)

http://home.maine.rr.com/jjtd/ECES2006/target26.html

 

[goldsbar]

How can you say carving isn't fun and it's mostly for intermediates? Carving is a lot of fun and most intermediates can't do it outside of perfect snow conditions and gently slopes. The feeling of the G's and the "pop" in turn transitions is great.

As for the definition, carving is essentially achieved by making your skis turn with minimal rotary/swivel movements. Instead, turns are achieved by putting the skis on their edges and letting the ski take over (many books on this and many body movements to get to this outcome - try Anyone Can be an Expert Skier). The skis will follow their natural arc which can be modified via bending the ski. The edges are essentially arcing through the snow at all times as opposed to plowing through/over it (skidding).

If you want to know if you're carving, look at your tracks. Two smooth, knife edge "railroad tracks" indicate a good carve. Some spray here or there indicates a "scarved" turn (carving with some skidding). Mounds of snow with no definable tracks indicates skidding. It's best to start with long radius turns as these are the easiest to carve.

Carving isn't everything but it sure makes a day stuck on the groomers a lot of fun.

 

[SkiDork]

by the way, when i was at jay recently, i saw a couple of boarders carving up the jet wall to wall, and i mean REALLY carving. i think they actually had alpine ski boots and the foot placement was very much parallel instead of perpendicular as most boarders are. these guys were literally "laying it out" putting a hand against the ground... they were way closer to the snow than being straight up... first time i have ever seen a board truly "carving" and it was impressive. almost all boarders skid from what i have seen, a true carve has no skid, just one big long perfect arc.

We have a few of those guys at K - they're using a carving board with hard boots. Real purty to watch....